Dark Romance and Realism | The Artistry Behind Nosferatu's Haunting Looks

Look behind the Look explores your favorite looks in film, television and fashion history

>> Tiffany Bartok: Welcome to look behind the look, the celebrated podcast that explores your favorite looks in film, television and fashion history. Through conversations with the fashion world's elite and award winning hair, makeup and costume designers. On sets around the world, you will see and hear exciting tales from behind the scenes, career origin stories and tons of advice and tips. I'm your host, Tiffany Bartok.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Hey, everybody. Welcome to look behind the Look. Today we are talking about Nosferatu and we're talking to the Oscar nominated hair and makeup team behind this beautiful film. It's beautiful and it's scary and it has mustaches and rats and all kinds of crazy blood coming out of the eyes. And we're going to talk about how all that happened, which is very exciting because what I really liked about the team is how they talked about how they still made all of these things very romantic. if you've seen the film, it puts you in a trance of some sort of gothic, romantic, very scary dream. state. And we're gonna talk to the team, Tracy Loder, David White, and Suzanne Stokes Munton, about how they made all that come to life under the direction of Robert Eggers. So if you haven't seen the film, shame on you. And if you have, please enjoy this conversation. And, we will see how this does in the Oscar race, which is very, very exciting.

How did you achieve this level of terror without showing us everything

Here we are talking about Nosferatu. We have Tracee, Suzanne and David, and you as a team created this beautiful film. And I'm gonna ask you everything about how you did that. Amazing. All right, now we're talking about a lot of prosthetics, and we're talking about black and white, and we're talking about making a beautiful film. And I wanted to ask what the most challenging aspect of this all was for you as a team.

>> Tracee Loder: As a team, that's an immediate.

>> David White: We've been asked that. Boom, boom.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I don't mess around, you guys. No, Direct to the punch.

>> Tracee Loder: Yeah, go for it.

>> David White: You go first.

>> Tracee Loder: or if you don't want to, I will.

>> David White: Oh, no, I can. I just think. And our answer usually has been about the same. It's keeping everything realistic.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

>> David White: Especially within the lighting and adjusting it for that. because it's not. Because everything has to look real. It's not like a makeup. It's like a real life.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Which is so funny because we're talking about, you know, warlock. How. How did you go about doing that? The hair, everything was so realistic. It looked a beast and it was terrifying even when we couldn't see the whole reveal. So I, How did you achieve this level of terror without showing us everything? What was the most important aspect of that?

>> Tracee Loder: The kind of strange thing is, is that where we kind of gain our information from our colleagues on the movie. I, you know, set, set deck and you know, costume and you know, production design and we use. Once you're in the environment or you check out the. That your actor, your character is going to be in, it kind of begins. It helps, you know, it helps identify who they are and where they live. So the whole nature of it. And if it's lit, it's just everything. You're absorbing all that information and plowing it back into the individual characters on the movie. to make sure they're part of that world.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right, right.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: In that lighting, it's important to give each character their definitive sculptural shape. So it helps the audience know who they ah, are.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right, right, right. And the. Is the hand really the first thing that we are introduced to or, or is it the shadow? I can't remember. I know.

>> Tracee Loder: On the film. Yeah, it's a good point. I think it is, there is a long shot of him and I think then it is sort of a hand kind of work on the table with the writing and the jewels and the. Yeah, there's a lot going on.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes.

>> Tracee Loder: But it's a slow build and Robert reveals everything, you know, in its own time, very carefully. So it's.

I was curious if Robert had the idea of these slow reveals

>> Tiffany Bartok: I was curious to know if Robert had the idea of these slow reveals or if you came to it as a group or how. How were you directed in, in this process? What was that?

>> Tracee Loder: I think it was, it was, that was his intention. that slow build, you know, the introduction, I mean it just kind of made sense and I think it, it's a little bit like opening door slowly, you know, until the very end where it's wide open and the lights coming through.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh m. My God.

>> Tracee Loder: It's literally like an ark, you know?

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes, yes.

>> Tracee Loder: And you know, you're in the castle. It's all very, you know. And then it, it opens up, the world opens. So he's. Yeah, it's all very intentional.

How about the decision for the mustache? Which is if I were to Google this movie

>> Tiffany Bartok: How, how about the decision for the mustache? Which is if I were to Google this movie, which I may or may not have done right before we spoke to see what people wanted to know the most. The mustache. The AI. The AI did, did say why is there a mustache?

>> Tracee Loder: Yes, I know, I know. It was in the, in the brief. Robert said he's gonna have a mustache. And I was And I was like, okay, I'm not going to argue with that. The information on the early boards that he, he brings forward and gives you this kind of mood board. And there were. There were many illustrations or characters from the mid 18th century. And they all had mustaches and they all had forelocks.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

>> Tracee Loder: You know, that kind of, I guess so Cossack inspired kind of look. You know, it just felt totally right. You know, a Transylvanian nobleman would have that kind of look. So I was sold immediately. It's just when it hits the world is suddenly a bit shocking. I can appreciate.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it does make it.

You spoke right away about the realism, which is so funny to me

You spoke right away about the realism, which is so funny to me, and. And it was so effective. And I guess the mustache is a big part of that, creating that realism. they all seemed also to be of the same world, strangely, instead of like separate worlds. Was that something that you guys talked about? I mean, one didn't seem like a monster. Right. you know what I mean?

>> Tracee Loder: It's an instinctive thing. I mean, everything. All the characters, instinctively, we know they're all playing within this one environment. So we're kind of tuning ourselves to work within that realm. As for Olog is the same. You know, he didn't. He wasn't coming in as a sort of a Hollywood monster.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

>> Tracee Loder: You know, which is something. Which is kind of interesting because on the Internet you see people's versions of. I, ah, would have done this, or we could have done that, but you know what? It's. It's just not right for us, you know, for Robert, it's just. It wouldn't have worked. He's not a standalone character. He's one of a cast, and that's how it is. You know, you really respect that. even though his presence is quite, you know, something because of his stature and the nature of who he is, but he's slightly underplayed, but in a really cool new fab way, I think.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes, yes, absolutely.

We kept his hair quite dusty, rather than greasy, I think

I, I also loved Willem Dafoe's. The work on Willem Dafoe. What. What went into all of that? That. I mean, I love seeing him in absolutely anything but in here. He just was that added relief of sort of comical and. But, how did that character come to be realized?

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: Well, again, as David said, Willem and I went to have a look at the set to see where he. Particularly his room. So we see where he lived and where he stayed and studied and whatever. So it gives you a sense of a real sense of the character and, So then decision was to make the hair quite dusty. Dusty and woolly, as opposed to greasy, which would be a natural thing.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah, yeah.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: But it isn't because the room's dusty. It's, you know, you pat him and dust flies out. And that was a conscious decision to do that. And then.

>> David White: Yeah. And with, his character, his facial hair was period, but we didn't clean shave and we kept a stubble to add that. His unique character. And he smoked, a pipe so we had like nicotine stains because it was the big pipe.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

>> David White: Stains on his fingers, his mustache and his teeth. And we also kept him with dirty, fingernails. Because he's just unkempt. He doesn't clean regularly.

>> Tiffany Bartok: He's a, it's not a, not a priority there.

>> David White: And it really does play well. Like when he's going over the book and stuff like that. And it doesn't jump out like it's, it looks organic. So it's not like, oh, he has this on his things. It just, it's the whole point of everything was keeping it real and organic.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I love that.

As the film progresses, Nicholas Hoult's character becomes more weary

Nicholas Hoult also, you know, he looked fresh faced. Did you, did you transform him throughout the film at all? What, what went into that progression for him as he became more weary? Yeah, because he's dealing with a lot.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: Yeah.

>> David White: Like at the beginning, you know, he just got married and you know, he's looking to get a promotion.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

>> David White: Ah. And he starts on this journey, Journey of doom. And so as that progresses, he does start to deteriorate. And then when he's washed up on the shore and the nuns find him, he's at his worst and he has substance and, he's gaunt and pale and yellow and he's been bit and all that. And then he kind of starts to heal, but he's still very drained and kind of trying to survive.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right, right, right. That was very effective. And again, realistic. Strangely.

Everyone is talking about Lily Roseda's eyes for Suspiria

for Lily Roseda, the, the. Everyone is talking about and curious about the eyes. So let's talk about the, sort of Suspiria aspect of her eyes. bleeding. I even hate to say it, it's so, it's so scary. But somehow it. You made it beautiful, strangely. And how, how did that come about?

>> David White: That was. Robert and I were talking about her possession looks and what we could do. And she had several looks. We kept her very pale and translucent.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

>> David White: So she had like a luminous. Because she was still beautiful.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes.

>> David White: And it's working with a lot of contour highlight popping out her Veins, deteriorating her, like around her eyes and stuff like that. And we had that all layered underneath the blood look. And we were thinking of things to add and I was like, there is an eye blood. Like, that's safe.

>> David White: And we tried it and it worked beautifully. None of it was cg. It was all like as we. We did it.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Really?

>> David White: Yeah.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Wow. And so what is that process? Is it going inside, Inside the eye?

>> David White: They're like eyedrops.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

>> David White: They're colored red.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Thick.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Like this thick.

>> David White: it's like a medium. Viscous.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: Viscous.

>> David White: Yeah, it's like that. And they're intended for that.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

>> David White: But with liquids. The first time we did it, we got like two lines and he's like, can you clean one up or. And I'm like, well, can't you do that in post? And he's like, no.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh.

>> David White: So it's like, okay. So then we just did it, so. And it's exactly how we shot it.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Wow, that's incredible. It really does. It really does. I have a feeling that this will be a, sought after Halloween look. Yes.

>> David White: Starting.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I'm sure the planning is in effect. Of course. Yes. People are probably doing it, you know, outside of Halloween.

What was the most difficult thing to come together on Lily

what was the most. Most like, difficult thing to come together on? What was the most, I, don't want to say something that you were dreading, but, like, what really served some thought and consideration?

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: It was definitely when Lily, so it's two, two scenes when Lily's lying in the bed and you know, she's going to be there about, for about five hours. And how many gallons of blood?

>> Tracee Loder: Oh, three or four maybe.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, Lord.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: And so it did take six hours to wash the wig.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh my God.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: We did it the first time. So I guess I was dreading the second time.

>> Tiffany Bartok: My God. Of course. So you had to do it twice.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: Knowing that it was like, not brittle or what. I don't know what you have in America. It was solidified.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, but it was the same wig.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: Yes, of course.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. And, and everyone was that the, was that, was that the same challenge? For what, what other challenges did you guys have?

>> Tracee Loder: I mean, I mean, there's a challenge. I would say it was more about how you kind of feel for the actor. I remember when Bill was in his sarcophagus, coming out for the first time. I mean, it's more about, you know, you want the prosthetics to hold up because he's standing, sitting Standing, sitting for many takes. But also the fact that he. I remember leading him to set and he's completely, totally blind. He hasn't. Because of his eye, you know, his lenses, of course, they put him in a circle. Covergirls with dirt filled, surrounded by rats. And close the lid. And then. And then there's, Everybody's talking outside. So before Bill, you would imagine the sounds and everything going on and, it must have been incredibly difficult to, you know, compose yourself.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

>> Tracee Loder: More than anything else, but.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right, of course, of course. That, that was. How many, how many rats were we talking about there?

>> Tracee Loder: He only had, say, maybe a dozen within the actual casket. Yeah, two would be enough, I'm sure.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, absolutely.

>> Tracee Loder: One keen to, get out as soon as they saw the light when that lid came off.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh my God. I'm sure, I'm sure. Wow. Wow. And. But what.

You didn't mention the actual transition at the final scene

What about, Now I'm surprised that you didn't mention the actual transition at the final. In the final scene. Well, is it the final scene? It's the one that sticks out in my mind as the final scene where the light hits him, when he's with Lily Rose Depp. And how did that happen?

>> Tracee Loder: Well, we had about, about a three to four second cut, mid section with, the help of visual effects.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

>> Tracee Loder: Withdraw and. And suck all the skin and begin the transition from A to B. The A being Bill and his final, you know, glorious look. And then, the B being the, the. The carcass that's left, which was something we had pre. Planned and ready to, put in position.

>> David White: Okay.

>> Tracee Loder: so it's like a three stage situation. you know, and Susanna can appreciate because that, that. That last body was rigged with blood coming out of every orifice. Yeah. Robert, asked for every orifice to be completely ready to go with a lot of blood. So that's what he got.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, my goodness. What a day. What a day.

>> David White: That room was so hot.

>> Tracee Loder: Yeah.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, I'm sure it was hot. Hot.

>> David White: I was sweating. Oh, yeah.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh my God. But now how did you make. How did you make her eyes go back into the head? How did. How did that happen?

>> David White: That's all Lily.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Stop it.

>> David White: Yeah, all Lily. No cg. That's all her acting.

>> Tracee Loder: That's scary.

>> David White: she's absolutely brilliant.

>> Tiffany Bartok: This is a party trick. This is.

>> David White: Body movements. All her.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh my God. Really? I have no idea. Oh, wow. Wow. That's incredible.

What was the, uh. What was what was the experience like while working

What was the, What were the days like? Were they heavy? Was there fun? Was what. What was what was the experience like while working?

>> David White: It was busy. It was busy.

>> David White: But it's like with Robert, he creates like a family atmosphere.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

>> David White: And it doesn't matter if you're a department head or a pa, he still treats you the same.

>> Tiffany Bartok: That's wonderful.

>> David White: It's just like. So it's. You want to go to work every day.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay. That's. Well, my goodness. You would really want to. Want to go to. You want people that want to come to work. When you have a day like you guys.

>> David White: Exactly. Even though you dread it, you know that it's going to go. It may be hard, but it's is going to go well.

Did you test anything before and then did anything not work

>> Tiffany Bartok: Was there a lot of testing before? Did you test things before and then did anything not work? Did you see like this isn't going to work for black and white or.

>> David White: Well, we tested everyone from every former to every background performer.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Wow.

>> David White: To like every single person was fitted with wigs or facial hair. The makeup test and then they were presented to Robert and then he'd sit down with Suzanne and I and go over it and then we'd m. Make any changes or notes necessary. Yeah. I'm trying to think if anything just didn't work. But he seemed to just your switch in the hairstyles maybe.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: Oh yeah, yeah. Robert and I talked about it's a hairstyle he really liked. And initially he was thinking of Lily for it.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: But it's the front V parting and I thought that would be a little too distracting for her, especially in dark hair. So I gave it to Emma.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay. Okay.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: Because it's. It's still there, but it's subtler.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: And it's not in your face.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right, right, right, right. No, her, her. I loved how much forehead she had. I know it seems like a silly detail, but I just love it added so much, you know, to, to her ethereal because she's str. And also gothic. It's just the most beautiful combination, you know. I saw this film in the theater, of course, on my birthday. It was my birthday. my birthday's New Year's Eve. So And it was full. We went to the small town La Crosse, Wisconsin, where I was for New Year's Eve. And it was packed. And in the bathroom I always listened to what people say, you know. And they were like, I was not expecting that. I thought this would be a monster movie. And I was like, well it sure was. But they were like, it was so romant. And I'm like, yes. Goal Achieved. Right. It was certainly. I don't know if there was a lot of discussion about the, line that you had between a romantic film and a horror film, you know, but you really achieved this perfect balance of it being romantic and beautiful.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: Superior love story.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: That happens to be a protagonist who is horrific, but it's actually a love story. So, and it's about when you said world. It's actually two worlds because it's the world of the Hardings, which is very grand. And it's how that world, the protagonist, his effect upon that world and how it did degenerate.

>> Tiffany Bartok: It's like Beauty and the Beast. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's beautifully said.

This is your second nomination, David. And, um, how, how does that feel

Well, you are obviously nominated. Well deserved. Everyone knew you would be. I mean, I did. And, how, how does that feel? This is your second nomination, David. Yes. And, and, third. I'm so sorry. Thank you for action. I'm sorry about that.

>> Tracee Loder: But this is a, amazing opportunity and it's just wonderful to be here and, you know, and being supported. It's great.

>> Tiffany Bartok: It's wonderful. I, I'm sure the community coming around during this circuit and everything, and you guys getting to be able to celebrate each other too. you know, I, I, I wonder, do you get nervous or do you just say whatever will be will be, or do you still get a little nervous?

>> David White: Depends on the moment and it changes very quickly.

>> Suzanne Stokes Munton: Yeah, well, for me to be recognized by my peers is enough, you know. Yeah, it's fine.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I'm sure, I'm sure. Well, it will be exciting and I will be watching and rooting for you guys and thank you, Vanessa. Thank you so much for your amazing work.

Look behind the look is a vinyl foot production written by me

>> Tiffany Bartok: Look behind the look is a vinyl foot production written by me, your host.

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