Episode 1: Tricia Sawyer Talks Sharon Stone in Casino

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Our listeners can save 10% on their next order. Visit presentation folder.com. And use promo code. Look behind the look. Hi everybody. I am Tiffany Bartok and I am so excited to invite Trisha Sawyer to the Premiere episode of look behind the look.  Trisha's accomplishments are seemingly limitless. She has worked extensively in the motion picture industry, and she was a personal artist to Sharon Stone.

Lindsay Lohan , Brittany Murphy, Gina Gershon, Scarlett Johannson, Robin Wright so many more. Her Emmy nomination for her fantastic work on everybody's favorite series, mad men after graduating from the Joe Blasco makeup school in Los Angeles. She joined the union heading for the film world, and she's now the department head for major  motion pictures.

She works on Marvel films. And she works on the beloved series. Um, house of cards. Her first feature was where sleeping dogs lie. She was the department head and that is where she met Sharon Stone. She'd go on to do 19 more films with Sharon. And the one we are going to talk about today is casino casino was released in 1995.

It was set in Vegas and encompassed about 16 years. Of different looks direct. It was directed by Martin Scorsese. It stars Robert de Niro, Joe Pesci, James Woods. And of course Sharon Stone, who was nominated for her performance. Thank you again, Tricia. Thanks for having. A little backstory. I was thinking about casino and iconic looks in makeup.

And then I posted, uh, an image of Sharon that I loved and grew up with. And, you responded that you would love to talk about it and here we are, and we're gonna start doing this now, um, which I'm really excited about. So, so how did you find yourself? Um, well, let's go way back. What, how did you find yourself in the industry and wanting to do movies at all?

By luck and chance really? Because nobody in my family was in the industry. I didn't, you know, it wasn't nepotism by any means. Um, I grew up in Pasadena, so I was in the Los Angeles area, but LA was a far off land. It just, nobody I knew was over there. So, um, a girlfriend, I was an art, I loved art and I wanted to go to art school.

And I didn't get a lot of enthusiasm from my family about that. They wanted me to get a real job. Um, so, um, but you know, I, that was always something that I really loved and I didn't really know how to make my two worlds mend. And I only knew makeup was working behind a counter. That was my only experience with it, you know?

So, um, I grew up watching. So many movies with my mom and, and loved black and white movies and you know, all of that. And I always knew I wanted to go into movies if I did do something like that. But anyway, one of my best girlfriends in high school, her sister went through Joe Glasgow's and she invited me to come down and see it.

And I walked in and I went, wow. I had no idea. I could do this as a career. It just, I just was determined to do it and it just, I just kept going after. Amazing. Yeah. That's, that's fantastic. I think the combination of art and makeup artistry that, that makes for a very long, long, long career, which you've had.

And, and then, so how did you find yourself on your first set? Um, I, well, when I first got out of makeup school, I started working at cinema secrets, which is still around. My favorite brush cleaner still. Um, and Maurice kind of took me under his wing and, and that was great. Cause he allowed me when I got little gigs to go out and do them and I couldn't have survived otherwise cause I wasn't working enough and I met more and more people in the industry.

And then, um, started working at Roger Corman, doing, uh, a different feature. Well slasher feature every three weeks. It seemed like making no money. Um, but it was an amazing experience. And I worked there for a couple of years, maybe I think if that, and then, then, you know, the producers would go and they would do a little bit bigger movie and you know, we'd go with them.

And that's how I got, uh, sleeping dogs, um, or sleeping dogs lie. And I, I was actually the department head on that and they said that Sharon evade had hired Sharon and. You know, don't worry. She doesn't like you, you're still our department head and, you know, stuff like that. And that was like, oh, okay. Who is this person coming in?

And, um, she walked in the door and she, I think she said, oh, thank God. You're young. And I was young. I was 19, almost 20, I think at the time. And, uh, and we just hit it off. Oh, that's fantastic. So, so you worked together on that film and who directed that it was Charles Finch. Okay. I believe I remember. And then after that came casino, I did that, that she went and did, um, basic instinct and I got my union during that time.

And so I. After basic instinct guys, just, I was, I had her phone number still and I was like, well for the shot and I left her a message. And I just said, you know, I don't know if you remember me, but I'm in the union now. And I would love to work with you. And she called me back and was like, I would love to work with you.

And that was it. I didn't really. I think much of it. And the next time I was, I got a, uh, I got a page. This is how long ago it is. I'll never forget. I was at Ikea and I got a page from, um, Howard caught at paramount and asking me if my availability, if I could come in and test, uh, with Sharon for, um, And I was like, ah, I don't know.

Let me check my availability. Yes. I can ran out of Ikea and didn't even get the ice.

That's awesome. I love stories like that, and it's too bad that you can't save that page now, you know, you can't take a screenshot of it. Um, okay. So then, so you did slippery and I was depart, they made me department head. I was 20 years old. Oh my gosh. Say on my first big union feature and it was, you know, $40 million and I was a baby.

Did you understand at that point, the pressure did you, did you realize like what was at stake that this large budget movie? I mean, I feel like maybe you might've been like, not knowing what you know now. Yes. Oh yes. I think that, um, youth and, um, innocence and not, you know, just all of that disparate.

Determined and, and, um, just too silly to be scared, I guess, you know, I just kept, I just kept, I was very fortunate to have Paula blank on my side, um, who was Sharon's hairdresser, the late great Paula Paula block. He was such a talent and so amazing. And he said to me, one of my first days working with him, he said, Trish, it's about.

It's always about the work. That's the most important thing. Um, but those words were huge to me. They, they I've, I've thought about that all my whole career, because it's not about the parties or the accolades or whatever. You don't get any of that unless you put the work in. And so I just focused on work and I just kept it.

And you were rewarded. Yeah. Yeah. I later later found out from Sharon, I think this was like five or six movies later that she asked them to make me department head because she was worried that I was so young that if I didn't have a little power, I would get lost and, um, was smart lady. Yeah. But you know, five years later I was like, you did what?

Cause I was like, I was so free, you know, scared and nervous that whole time. And I'm like, I can't believe you did that, but it worked. I mean, thank God she believed in me that way, you know? Um, yeah, she was, she was like, you know, this is her, you know, too about me was my sink or swim moment. And, um, she, what, what she had done is she and her best friend, Mimi Craven had put out all of her pictures.

From all of her movies after basic instinct, because she knew she needed the makeup artists for sliver. And, um, she put pictures out of all of our movies and figured out that, you know, which, which one do I look the best in? And she and her best friend Mimi was like, you look amazing and we're sleeping dogs lie.

And that's how she, she requested why she, and it just happened. My phone call was a coincidence in the whole thing. But I didn't know that for five years, she didn't tell me and everything just aligned so beautifully meant to be for sure. So, so then now we're at sliver and then the next one, uh, we went straight on to intersection and then we did a quick and the dead.

And then I think right after that, we did. Specialists? No, we must've done casino first and then the specialist. Okay. So we, we had quite a few between sliver and casino. And then when you go, when did you find out about w how did it come together? That casino would be beginning. I think she had told me that there was this movie that she really wanted, and I remember her auditioning for it.

Like she, she, her, wow. To, to get an audition. She really wanted that part. And, and it shows, I think in the movie, like she just, her connection with Scorsese was amazing. And I mean, it just, it was, it was an incredible experience. I'm so glad she got it. Yeah. I think  working when, when she told me that about it.

And then, um, I remember. Started it that it must have been right after the new year, because I remember going to a Christmas party and telling somebody there that I was going to go do casino. And they were like, you're what? And again, I'm like all about the work. I was just like researching and, you know, doing all the stuff and I'm like, yeah, I am.

And that was the first time I really started feeling like, oh, Shit when it was reflected. In others. Yeah. Yeah. I know how that I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause you sort of get into that tunnel where you're just like just the next thing and I'm with Sharon and yeah. And then you're like, oh and Marty.

Oh, okay. So, but I, now I remember you originally telling me that it was going to be like a six week two. Yeah, yes, yes. To be there for six weeks. Her part wasn't that big in the beginning. And. We got there and it just kept, we just kept getting bigger. She got written into more scenes. They like, obviously liked what they were seeing.

And, um, and yeah, we ended up being there six months. It was nuts to be in Vegas for six months. I don't wish that. Sorry, everyone who lives in Vegas, but that's, that's a lot with. Originally, we were staying in the, and the casinos when we first got there and having to walk through the casino. And the thing, thing, thing, dating though, you know, after shooting in one all night, and I finally got my own apartment, you know, off of the strip and that was much better.

And then I really fell in love with Vegas. I didn't think about that part. Yeah, because I think the six months in Vegas, but when you're working, I've been, um, places where, you know, you're, don't go outside because. On that premise and you, you never go outside. So that must've been what it was like for you.

Yeah. When we could only shoot in the casinos at night. So, um, we would start shooting around 10 30 at night and we would shoot all night, you know, and go home at eight in the morning. So it was, uh, it was a very devote truss way of life. It was crazy. Was, it was, it was serious vibe or were people partying or no, I remember the grips, like going to the production manager, asking for their per diem, begging for their per diem for the following week because they have, they have gambled it all away and stuff like that, you know?

I mean, it was, it was, it was crazy. It was crazy. Um, now, how did you research ginger and how did that come together? Well, it's funny because she's based on a real person. So we did have, we did have photos of, of the real ginger. Um, of course I didn't think. Yeah. And I actually, I found the book I had of their actual wedding and, um, we, we didn't have a lot of these photos up, but I'll, I'll send these to you in the.

But we had, we had the progression of, you know, this is the real ACE, oh my God, we have the progressive progression of how ginger actually aged. So that was kind of, um, a loose, you know, uh, guide for us, which was, which was really great. Um, and her daughter and, and all of that. And then each period we did.

We really dissected how and, and the genius costume designer, um, Rita Riach, she just really, she, we just followed the meeting, following her lead was just like, she's amazing. So is that always how it works? Um, Do you see the costumes verse and that influences your ad is a big influence. Yes. I mean, um, Sharon Sharon loves makeup.

She loves makeup. She loves hair. She loved to wear to really, to really just get into the character. So, um, I mean, really, to me like Sharon, Sharon was kind of like how lady Gaga is now. Like she just, she loved becoming that character, you know, she was. Um, having makeup help transform her into that person.

And I loved, I that's, that's what I love. I love helping create a story. And if I can have a small part in helping an actor create that, it's just, that's just, you know, that's everything to me, you seemed completely in sync with what you were creating. And I think. The reason ginger works so well and you can never get mad at her and you're never, you never hold her responsible really is because you see how much she loves her, you know, like that Sharon loves ginger, you know, and, and ginger didn't love herself, you know, which is sad.

Yeah, it was, it was, it was, yeah, there were difficult times. I mean, it was a hard. It was a hard road to, to carry her down because ginger was, you know, sad and devastating at times. Um, but it was such a, it was, it was amazing to, to put that onto screen. How, how did Marty feel and how was he, how, how was he to work?

He was great. He was great. Um, Such a genius. And he really hires such amazingly talented people from the actors to the crew to, I mean, everybody and he, he really sees you're the talent and, and just gives you the room to fly. So he's very encouraging to let you do that deep dive into whatever it is that.

Feel is necessary for that, that to create that app, no character, um, which is so wonderful. I mean, and, and Sharon thrives in that too. So we just we're all in. When was there ever a time that you presented a look and he was like, Hmm, let's work on that a little bit. Or he was like, you guys. Oh God. I mean, thank God.

Yeah. I don't know how I would've reacted, but no, he was great. He was, you know, he's, he's, he's very eccentric. He, um, you have to, um, be invited to watch his monitor and he had, um, I don't remember, sorry, Marty, if I'm throwing, throwing, you know, out your secrets, but I remember going on the set and Andy behind on the monitors, he had those, those, um, mirrors like truck drivers have that go all the way.

So he could see who was behind him watching the monitor. And I was like, God, why does he have that? And then I realized, like he has to turn her. He has to see who's watching. And he's like, okay. Yeah, you can, you can watch. So, how did you watch your words watch with him? But at first it was, you know, I was, I was like, oh, you know, and then somebody told me after I just did it and they were like, yo, you have to be invited.

And I'm like, oh, well I guess they passed that. They never like, never use it, but, you know, Um, and I became very good friends with Marty's daughter, Kathy, on that job. And, um, he kind of had to approve of that as well. And, um, and, um, it was kind of like the old Italian, like I was like, oh, okay. I got, I got, I got approved.

Well, you know, once you're approved, that's it. You're you're set. Um, uh, the, the first look, the one. The that's the most iconic to me is that high ponytail. Do you want to talk a little bit about why, you know, that loss. It's just everything, everything we all want to be as women and nailed it. You nailed it.

I have two questions about one is about the creation of it. And the second is when you saw it on the big screen, in the context of the film, the first time I always was a huge fan of Marty's long, just continuous takes. I, I just loved that. And for some reason, I don't know why, but that night I didn't realize that.

What was going to be happening with her. And so when I watch it watched it unfold in front of me, when she did the first, the long continuous take, I was like, oh, this is one of those moments. Oh my God, this is going to be so good. And when she threw the chips up and then it was in slow motion, when I thought on screen, I was just like, this is, this is just crazy.

Um, you're like, that's going on my, and that's just the whole thing. I'm just going to leave that there and nothing else. That was incredible. And then the, I, I think I counted 27. Am I right. That you had to tend to what? I don't know. I have a cat. I don't know. I have to I'll let the cat, I watched it the other night and broke down.

How, you know, the minutes that I saw each look in it and I had 27 bullet points that I was just like, oh, did you, did you, how did you know when she was going to start changing her? Look, did you go by era or what she was going through as a character? Was it the era of like the decade or more what she was like, she might lie in the inside now.

Cause she's getting a little bit rougher. Yeah, no, I mean, if it was both, it was everything. It was her age and this in the movie, it was the era. It was, it w you know, if she was into drugs or not, then, you know, like, you know, we just followed her, her downfall. Um, really, I remember the, the moment that was the big moment.

Yeah. Ginger's change was the fight between her and dinero when he dragged her down the hallway with all the jewelry. Oh my God. Yes. Yeah, that was one of my favorite looks and, and they did that. They did that scene over and over again, and it was amazing to watch those two get together doing that intensity.

And it was a privilege to be there. This day though, this day, I think you had mentioned it before. Yes, because that's a, that's a Bob Mackie dress and I think it weighed at least 30 pounds. Tell me about that. That, that particular day we shot 24 hours. Hell. And I think, so this is the wedding. This is the wedding.

And I think Sharon cracked her tooth in the middle of the day. And we had to have a dentist come on, set and fix it so we could continue shooting. It was crazy. It was crazy. Uh, midway through the chute. Yeah. Well, onset onset. Cause we, I think we only had that location for that day and we had to get it.

And so she's like, okay, bring the Dennis here. She ever was she game every day, like this, like with the momentum just always or what she sometimes like, did it rise and fall or it definitely rose it, had it ebbs and flows. It, it definitely. I don't know any actor that the intensity of this character with it, it got to you, it got to, to us, you know, I mean, we definitely all rode the ginger train.

Um, and you know, there were really rough days and there were good days, you know, but if she, when she got more towards the end and as ginger got more drugged out, you know, she had to kind of stay in that space for a while. And it, that was, that was tough. That was the. Period. I'm sure. And the death scene was hard.

The death scene was really hard. Yeah. Um, I actually, it was the last day of her of shooting that we'd shot the death scene, a harsh. I think they had some more stuff to do. And, um, we had already been there six months and it was in the works and we had, we had, um, aged her up and I had bruised her up and drawn in her Riz and like, you know, the whole.

They all of it was just paint and powder and we had completed the whole thing. And then Marty came in the trailer to talk to her and um, said, you know, I just don't know if today going to work. I just don't think it's gonna, I can shoot it right now. And, and I went, uh, uh,

And I pulled him out of the trailer and I'm like, you kill her today. You kill her right now. That's it. We're ready. And he's like, oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Do this anymore.

And you were 24.

Yeah, I love that you kill her today. Kill her today. We can't take it anymore. Oh my God. And then the w but it obviously wasn't in chronological order. Did you know? You can. Ginger's scenes probably together. So did you have a concept of like how this would all turn out? Like, did you know she was doing such amazing work?

Like, was it the best work you'd ever seen her done? Yes. Yeah. At that point, yeah. At it that I've been with her. I mean, besides basic split the first basic, I think. Yeah. I definitely just, it was amazing. It was amazing. I mean, to be with the caliber of all those people with Peshy, for seats, with Peshy, when she's aging too, or just, she was incredible in those.

And, and I mean, she took a deep dive into ginger and it, and it shows on camera. I mean, it was just. It was amazing the combination with the actors and some Scorsese. And it was, it was a pleasure. Um, it was a tough, tough pleasure. How about that? Have you ever had something as challenging since, or yes. What I'm on right now was what you're on right now interrupted by COVID and now you have to that's tough.

That's tough. Yeah. Um, what were some of your other favorite casino?

Sorry, the other favorite looks. Yeah,

let's see. I'd like to, I really loved the, uh, purple. Where is it? C. Oh, I, I mean, I loved the first look when she was in that, which is getting off the airplane. Oh yeah. I love that. Um, the ponies, the ponies are just, yeah, and I love it. I love that. Oh my God. It was really beautiful. Oh my God. And then this, this one was one of my favorites when he gives her the jewelry and the rest.

And she did the money for the tip for the powder room. I love that. I know. I remember always thinking, like, is that a thing, like, can I do that like $50? Like what's the $50 for this is that one we were talking about? Yeah. Oh, so beautiful. But it's funny at the time, I didn't really like this ginger as much.

Right. But now I really, I wanted to talk to you about that. What, what, like, because, oh my God. I mean, that reminds me of when she was Gloria, did you work on Gloria? No, I did minds me of Gloria bound. This is a good, this, this was after. Oh my God. Yes. Wow. I've shot. We shot with Scavullo a couple of times.

And that was, how was that? I'm sorry, this is, this is either school or script Nessie. I think it was script Netscape. Oh really? Okay. I think it was script esky. Yeah. Cosmo, we shot Cosmo with her. Yeah. Um, it was, yeah. Oh, and then did you go to the, I mean, were you at the Oscars or w tell me about the Oscars.

I didn't go to the Oscars with her, but I did her for the Oscars. Uh, Sharon was lovely. She was, she, she was so incredibly loyal and I did everything with her. I did every magazine cover, every can, every am for event, every everything. For the time I was with, you know, with her, it was, it was amazing. It was a, a lifetime mix, you know, of experience and, uh, and you know, 10 year, 15 year span, it was amazing.

She, um, she, she seems to be. She seems to be a very complicated person who really, really, really gives back. And, you know, I think, I think she's she's as real as they come. Right. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, she is. She is very generous. Um, any other favorite memories from casino that you wanted to talk about?

Let me see, I, I wanted to ask you one more thing. I wanted to ask you what it was like working with the other makeup artists, because it seemed pretty big in number. And, and can you just tell a little bit about what that's like, like, cause um, when you bring her to set. Do you guys work together before or on each individual?

I mean, are you all I casino, it was kind of, uh, it was a little bit different. Cause normally, normally I think if I was going in as a personal, it would be a little more collaborative where this one, I think they. They knew Joanne, the department head, she knew that her character was, she, she was pretty much the girl.

I mean, she was, you know, the girl in the movie. And so what we did set, set kind of what she was going to do. So she did she and I collaborated that way, but she was very much like you're kind of, you're assessing. The look and I'm going to follow, which is usually it's usually the other way around. So yeah, she was she's she was lovely in that way.

And it was, uh, it was a lovely experience in that, in that respect. And Joe had his own makeup artists and, and dinero had his own makeup artists, Alona, Herman, and. And they've all been together for a long time. So it was a big base camp, but nothing. I mean that's normal now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then when you had the short wig that we were talking about, that we were looking at earlier, was that true to what the real person had?

The real ginger is just, how did that look? Because I felt the same thing. I, I related to what you said about how you, weren't crazy about that. Look. And then when I saw it, I appreciated it so much more the other day when I was watching. So this is one of the pictures that we had been shared, crossed out and put her as an angel.

We didn't, we didn't have tons of pictures of her up. Um, but this is, this is. Oh, look at those bums. Yeah, this is another one. Oh my God. So, so yeah, so we can, you know, loosely, so her wig looked better than nose though. There we go. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. But you could see it here too in her face in her eyes. She's in, but still being sad.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah, it was a sad, but yeah, so we, we had seen those and we loosely based it on it, but normally in a, in a, on a, in a trailer, we would have all of those up and, and we didn't, we didn't, we wanted to, I guess, loosely based it on her. Yeah. Um, what else can I ask you? I want to ask you a hundred thousand things about others.

I think

we talked about your relationship with Sharon and know the challenges. Oh, the victorious moments, you know, what were some moments? Well, we did talk about. That long shot of her entering the casino and then throwing the chips in the air. And that's like one of those like champion, you know, moments where there any more like that, where you're like, oh my God, we nailed it.

Like I said, the one where he dragged her down the hallway after the jewelry, I really, really loved that one. And then the other one in the casino, a hotel room, it might've been with Joe. I can't remember, or no, maybe it wasn't, it was a trick and she's in the mirror and it's, it's the double gingers. Um, I loved that look as well.

There were a lot of great moments on that. I mean, they, they really, I really appreciate that. They gave me the opportunity to, to really. Go for it and change her completely. I mean, I had a manicurist every day and you know, her nails changed and sometimes the manicurist had to stay all day because we would change scenes in the middle of the day and they allowed us to do it.

Yeah. It was, it really shows I think, oh my gosh, those details are undeniable. And you see, I mean, have you ever seen on YouTube? There's like people breaking down the looks to the fingernail, you know, and do a, do a, when you go down the rabbit hole one day, it's crazy, you know, Every single outfit in, um, casino, you know, and she needs her Barbie.

She needs a Barbie. I think Jason, it's funny because I didn't watch casino actually for probably about five years after it came out, you were probably just like, it was, yeah, it was kind of like a. This is shell shots, you know, like it was a lot, so it took me a minute to like step away and actually be able to watch it, um, and critique it, you know?

And. NACA. Oh, that was that day that we worked 24 hours. That was that day. So, so was it outside that 24 hour a day in the gold dress in the Bob Mackie? We were inside. Oh, thank God. Oh my gosh. And what, what about it was so long? You can't go that long. That's not fair. Right? I think it was just because we only had that location for that one day, you know, and they were tearing down the casino that we were shooting in kind of around us.

The Tangiers with that. I can't remember the name of the hotel, but maybe the dude. The one in the movie was the Tangier. Yeah. But what the hotel was, I can't remember, but they were tearing it down right after we shot there. And then that wasn't VI that looked like Palm Springs. His house looked like Palm Springs to me, always.

I thought maybe they cheated that and the house was incredible. Yeah. One of the things I did do for research, which was really great is I, um, they arranged for me to go see a show and then go backstage with the dancers. And I got to just talk to them and see the make up and, and see kind of how they did things.

And that was, that was incredible. That was really cool. There that's a special art, I mean, yes, different makeup than. What anyone thinks it is, don't you think? Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like the only thing I can compare it to now is probably Ru Paul's drag race. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. But it's even, it's even different.

I don't know what it is that it's, it almost looks like it's natural for them. It never, it never even strikes me as too much, you know? It is so beautiful. Very beautiful. Very beautiful. I wanted to also ask you, I guess let's talk about what you're doing now, and we can talk about that so we can have that at the end of everything too.

And so, so casino obviously kicked off an amazing ride and you did many, many, many, many, many, many, many movies. And you're still working so much today. And what, what are you working on right now? Uh, right now I'm doing a show called Wanda vision for Martin. Oh, Wanda, Wanda, the witch. Fantastic. Yeah. And I can't say too much more, but of course not you can't with Marvel, but we'll be, we'll be very excited to see.

It was so great talking to Trisha on the show. And I just can't thank her enough for taking the chance and being my very first guest and sort of helping me kick off this whole thing in style. I'm so appreciative and had such a great time with her. I hope you enjoyed listening next week. I'm going to be talking to Emmy award nominated celebrity hairstylist, Barry Lemo.

And we're going to be talking about his work on the groundbreaking series pose. So please tune into. Look behind the look is a vinyl foot production written by me. Your host, Tiffany Bartolock produced by Jayce, Bartok and produced and edited by Kelly Riley. If you're interested in learning more, find our video version on the YouTube channel.

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