Makeup Artist Julia Floch-Carbonel On Transformation In Emilia Pérez

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Welcome to look behind the look, the celebrated podcast that

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explores your favorite looks in film, television and

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fashion history. Through conversations with the fashion world's

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elite and award winning hair, makeup and costume

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designers on sets around the world, you will see and hear

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exciting tales from behind the scenes, career origin

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stories and tons of advice and tips. I'm your

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host, Tiffany Bartok. Hey everybody. Welcome to

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look behind the Look. We're deep into award

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season and so there's so

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many movies to talk about right now and so much

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amazing work. The film we're talking about today

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is Emilia Perez. Today I'm speaking to the head of

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the makeup department, Julia Flock Carbonel.

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Please forgive my horrendous French. I spoke with

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Julia the morning after I saw the film. I did

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not know anything about the controversy. The film had

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just come out and.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: I hadn't read, read into it.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Or looked, into the film at all. I simply

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watched it. I was truly blown away by the

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film. I have since looked into,

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the controversy, the backlash, all

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sides of the story.

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And please look into it. Just google

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Emilia Perez controversy because it's an

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interesting conversation to be had. I

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appreciate, the perspective of the trans

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community and I think it's a good conversation to

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be had. I was marveling

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in particular about the.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Herculean effort of making this

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musical. I saw it as an opera

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melodrama.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: I, thought it was really a magnificent

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film. I think the performances are

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incredible and I really loved it. And Julia's work

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as the makeup artist in the film is great and she talks about, about all

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the different departments in this interview.

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And so I do hope you'll give it a listen.

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And, I'd like to hear from.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: You about the film and what you thought.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Let's engage in a conversation about this. I think it's

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an important film to see. and again, I

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appreciate the point of view of the people who are

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speaking out against the film in the trans community.

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And I just, I think it's a really good conversation

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to go back and forth with and, for

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all of us to understand all points of view.

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here's our conversation.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Are you English?

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>> Speaker C: No, I'm not English. Why? No, because

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you, you are pretty.

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So does your

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client have a name?

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He desires to remain anonymous.

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If you're not willing to accept, I don't think it's

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worth talking.

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Just cut to the chase.

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To listen is to accept.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Hi, I'm here with Julia now and

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let's dive right into this

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masterpiece film. I,

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I rarely talk to people that where I didn't

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like the movie. So I know I'm always gushing,

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but like, this is an absolute

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masterpiece. I want to know Soup,

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to nuts, everything that. How

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the hell did this come into your life

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and how did you make

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this movie together? Emilia

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Perez is. I'm sure it's going to be, if

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not already nominated for the

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best foreign film. It's won ton of awards

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from can. It's

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on Netflix now. Everyone should see it.

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I was saying last night there's two musicals to choose

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from this weekend. One is Wicked and one's

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Amelia Paris.

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>> Speaker C: Yeah, I can't wait to see Wicked too. It look amazing.

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Like there's so much good film right now and

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like makeup and stuff. We are like,

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really, it's amazing. Like, I love it.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Well, going into this, I had no idea that it was a

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musical. I didn't know anything about it

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and was blown away. So. So talk to me

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and let's just that this is going to

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be, best listened to and

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viewed after you see the film. Because

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I just don't want to be careful about spoilers or anything.

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Of course. Because it was it.

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If you. If you haven't seen it,

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I don't want you to know anything going in to it because it's

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just surprise after surprise.

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So tell me how it came into your life.

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>> Speaker C: Well, it was the second time that I worked with

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Jacob. Jacob is really like

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incredible. Someone really important in France.

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So my career changed completely as soon

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as I work with him.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: And what was the. What was the other film? Julia, what was the other film that

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you were.

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>> Speaker C: It's Le O. It's just a film before.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

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>> Speaker C: And it's really more simple film like

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intimid film about relationship

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in Paris and you know,

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just love. Love in Paris right now

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and meeting people through connection,

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and computer and resource, so.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, cool.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

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>> Speaker C: It was a great. I was by

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myself. Like the thing is, I could work with

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Jacques because of Virginie Montel, who is an amazing

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artistic director that I've met before,

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on few film. Really like, you know,

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tough film to do. No money. And at

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night in Paris in winter, I. Oh

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God. She's seen me like work

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my ass off in pretty bad

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condition. And I had no idea that she

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was such a big artistic

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director because we were doing small

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movie.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh yeah.

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>> Speaker C: But we had fun and we had a good, great

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connection. And then I did a news. She

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was artistic director of Jacques and his

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partner, got it. His partner in

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Life. So one day she called me for

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zero and she said to me, like,

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I am searching for someone to design makeup

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for next film of Jacques. And I was like,

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oh, oh, you're mistaken. It's Julia

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makeup. You know, like, no, she said, like, I'm

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searching for someone for next Jack movie. And I was like,

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oh, you know, it's not Julia costume, it's Julia

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makeup. You did a mistake,

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probably. She laughed and I was

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like, Uh-huh. And then we did that on my

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lampshade. I was by myself for hair and makeup because

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it were more like a theatrical. Theatrical

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crew. And then the big Emilia,

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like, she trust me with that again. And

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we were a lot of people and the international

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casting was amazing. And I

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was really into this question,

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at the time. I think it's a. The most

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fascinating job that I had to search

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for. But, like,

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it was so interesting. And we met amazing

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actress.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: So Julia, you signed on to the project before you

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knew. Before you read the script.

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>> Speaker C: I, wonder. No, I think. I think Jacques is not like

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that.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay. he told you everything that you were getting into? Yeah.

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>> Speaker C: There is this new fashion of like, signing before

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reading the script. I'm working with Luc Besson too.

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And, it's a new way to go. And that's

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right for the

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secret part. But like, Jack doesn't work that

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way. Virginie told me a lot. It was

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a scenario in process because we start

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working on, Emilia Perez. Six months ago,

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I was working on a show. So every weekend of

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mine, I would meet Carola Sophia or we

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would work with Virginia. It's not formal

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way of working, but it's constant.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

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>> Speaker C: Constant inspiration, drawing. And

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you know, we. We grow a lot. It's always

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a question, a circular question. Because

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Virginie work a lot, got a lot of

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idea. I have to propose

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some option.

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>> Speaker C: Research. Then Jack come along and

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so sometimes we find some

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answer and then next question come

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along and then it question

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the answer of before. It's always,

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always, always, always. So it takes time. But it's

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really. It's just such a

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great process because we don't want to go. As soon as

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you read a script, you have this,

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in conscience collective coming

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along. M. We all get this image of

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films that we've seen or, you know, actualities

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that we know. And the circular

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thing is to do not make it

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obvious. Never. Ah. To make it the most

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intelligent and, you know, the most thoughtful.

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And, for me, I take most

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freedom of my creativity is

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like When I have some, content, like,

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some. Some points that I get to

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respect. If I'm all free,

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I'm not that great. But if I act like,

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you know, some point the structure or, I don't

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know, some, for example, we had, like, this

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mouse of, Carla when she got

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prosthetic. Not spoiler, but,

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like, for example, this mouse was

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a point, and we construct

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our character around it because we couldn't cover

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it. And it make it, like, really helpful

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for me to find something

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because something had to be this

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way. I'm sorry, my friend.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: No, no, it's. It's all right. It's all right.

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So. So you have the goal of working with the

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mouth, right. And then everything centers

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around that because it's saying something about the

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character to make it

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believable.

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>> Speaker C: But we couldn't hide the mouse of.

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Real beautiful mouse of Kerala.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

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>> Speaker C: We had to find. And it helped us to find the

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characters.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: This is. This is. This is the main question that I.

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I was kept coming up. Is that how

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believable did you want it to be? You know what I

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mean? Like, so believable that she didn't

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recognize that, Zoe Saldana did not

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recognize her at the table.

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Yeah, but we knew who it was

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right away. So how. How do you

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tackle that? I mean, it. Was it

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hard to. And then. And then the look of

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her developed as she became more and more comfortable

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with her woman.

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>> Speaker C: Exactly.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay. Okay, great.

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>> Speaker C: The thing is, like, this transition is

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not, It's symbolic. It's.

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It's for Emilia to

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finally let love in and express

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love in her life. She's not stuck in,

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main cage or masculinity or toxic

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masculinity. Like, it's, That's what she said in

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the trailer. Like, she. She's

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stuck. She's stuck in representation

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of what is cartel, what is man, what is. And then

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she can't love the way she wants to love,

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and she wants to. She

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remind of a character of the past, a woman that

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she loved, and she choose as

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a love symbol, and she wanted to be.

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And so, And so

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that's. That's the purpose of it. The contrast has to

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be. Manitas has to be scary. Really scary.

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>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes.

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>> Speaker C: Like. Yeah, like a chimera. Like a ghost.

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She's trapped in a trailer. She's,

256
00:12:07.045 --> 00:12:09.605
I. I use this image, but a, little bit of

257
00:12:09.677 --> 00:12:11.725
Marlon Brando in Apocalypse now, you know.

258
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>> Tiffany Bartok: Aha. Yes. I can see it

259
00:12:14.485 --> 00:12:14.893
immediately.

260
00:12:14.941 --> 00:12:17.555
>> Speaker C: You see the, You know, the face and the lighting.

261
00:12:17.627 --> 00:12:20.424
And when I saw the movie, he struck me. I didn't

262
00:12:20.464 --> 00:12:22.920
thought about it before, but I was like, yeah, in the

263
00:12:22.952 --> 00:12:25.640
trailer it's already a cage and

264
00:12:25.672 --> 00:12:28.404
she's already dead as this one.

265
00:12:29.064 --> 00:12:31.906
And then like, when she's in

266
00:12:31.970 --> 00:12:34.914
hospital, the light came on the first time.

267
00:12:34.954 --> 00:12:37.815
That, light. Daylight is coming in the

268
00:12:37.847 --> 00:12:40.179
film. Otherwise it's always night.

269
00:12:40.599 --> 00:12:41.127
>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

270
00:12:41.223 --> 00:12:44.143
>> Speaker C: And she's like, she got a

271
00:12:44.151 --> 00:12:46.259
lot of. I put a lot of, you know,

272
00:12:46.719 --> 00:12:49.719
sweat and blood and you know, like. Because it's

273
00:12:49.759 --> 00:12:52.423
so violent to go through this and it's so

274
00:12:52.471 --> 00:12:55.463
painful. And when I hear people saying like,

275
00:12:55.511 --> 00:12:58.099
it's a fashion or I don't know, it's.

276
00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.520
I, can't believe like, does

277
00:13:02.380 --> 00:13:05.240
irrespectful it is to say that.

278
00:13:05.780 --> 00:13:06.720
Do you mean.

279
00:13:07.180 --> 00:13:10.042
>> Tiffany Bartok: Do you mean when people say they. When people are

280
00:13:10.146 --> 00:13:12.986
belittling it by saying like, oh, they just want to do

281
00:13:13.018 --> 00:13:15.898
this and you are. You understand all that goes into.

282
00:13:15.994 --> 00:13:18.754
>> Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And I love the hospital

283
00:13:18.842 --> 00:13:21.530
part because it, it

284
00:13:21.570 --> 00:13:22.790
shows how.

285
00:13:24.290 --> 00:13:27.186
How unhappy you have to be to go

286
00:13:27.218 --> 00:13:30.186
through this physical pain and the trust

287
00:13:30.298 --> 00:13:33.098
process of, you know, going through it.

288
00:13:33.154 --> 00:13:36.034
So we make a lot of bandage and stuff to

289
00:13:36.082 --> 00:13:38.258
hide, of course. Beautiful

290
00:13:38.314 --> 00:13:41.036
features, but also like, the

291
00:13:41.068 --> 00:13:43.836
skin is really bruises and really sweaty

292
00:13:43.908 --> 00:13:46.740
and really, you know, she. It's a mutation.

293
00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:49.145
It's like a, butterfly mutation.

294
00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:51.315
And then London.

295
00:13:51.775 --> 00:13:54.391
Yeah. Rita. And her. Because

296
00:13:54.423 --> 00:13:56.935
Rita goes through a transition too. Like she.

297
00:13:57.015 --> 00:13:57.471
>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

298
00:13:57.583 --> 00:14:00.463
>> Speaker C: Money. She made money and she made power

299
00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.115
because she's such a bright lawyer at first.

300
00:14:03.615 --> 00:14:06.127
But she's stuck with this bad man and

301
00:14:06.191 --> 00:14:08.875
immoral, you know, process of,

302
00:14:10.290 --> 00:14:13.099
prosecuting, like men, who kill women.

303
00:14:13.291 --> 00:14:13.683
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

304
00:14:13.723 --> 00:14:16.651
>> Speaker C: But she's stuck. She's a black woman still. And we know

305
00:14:16.707 --> 00:14:19.363
how hard it is, like on this planet.

306
00:14:19.443 --> 00:14:22.143
Yes. But then with the money,

307
00:14:22.963 --> 00:14:25.811
she can choose and she can be

308
00:14:25.867 --> 00:14:28.590
there and she can be powerful as, Zoe

309
00:14:28.622 --> 00:14:30.788
Saldana is. She's

310
00:14:30.956 --> 00:14:33.188
tremendously beautiful and

311
00:14:33.356 --> 00:14:36.196
sophisticated and she's. She's graceful.

312
00:14:36.260 --> 00:14:39.156
Thank you. So our main work was to

313
00:14:39.180 --> 00:14:40.664
find Rita's first.

314
00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:42.119
>> Tiffany Bartok: Uh-huh.

315
00:14:42.119 --> 00:14:45.036
>> Speaker C: Bushy eyebrows. The eyebrows and

316
00:14:45.060 --> 00:14:47.364
a little shadow here, like a

317
00:14:47.404 --> 00:14:50.284
mustache. We change her hair with a wig

318
00:14:50.364 --> 00:14:52.664
to make it more like curly.

319
00:14:53.124 --> 00:14:55.932
Eventually. Black hair. Black hair. Because,

320
00:14:55.988 --> 00:14:58.060
like, Zoe got amazing strange hair.

321
00:14:58.132 --> 00:14:58.412
>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

322
00:14:58.468 --> 00:15:00.744
>> Speaker C: Her hair is the second part. It's all.

323
00:15:02.754 --> 00:15:04.058
>> Tiffany Bartok: Wow, I wondered about that.

324
00:15:04.106 --> 00:15:06.359
>> Speaker C: But really sophisticated too, huh?

325
00:15:06.359 --> 00:15:07.199
>> Tiffany Bartok: Uh-huh.

326
00:15:07.450 --> 00:15:08.934
>> Speaker C: It's, you know, she,

327
00:15:10.434 --> 00:15:13.417
she took care a, great care of her hair. But it's. So

328
00:15:13.473 --> 00:15:16.249
to have such a long hair for a black woman. And

329
00:15:16.289 --> 00:15:17.433
beautiful eyes.

330
00:15:17.561 --> 00:15:18.057
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes.

331
00:15:18.153 --> 00:15:21.145
>> Speaker C: It's a miracle. Like, she. So we had to

332
00:15:21.177 --> 00:15:23.401
find, like. And we pin her hair a lot.

333
00:15:23.545 --> 00:15:24.217
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

334
00:15:24.353 --> 00:15:25.983
>> Speaker C: She has to disappear.

335
00:15:26.161 --> 00:15:26.923
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

336
00:15:27.091 --> 00:15:29.699
>> Speaker C: And Zoe doesn't disappear when she enter a

337
00:15:29.739 --> 00:15:32.603
room. Oh, something is happening. Like,

338
00:15:32.651 --> 00:15:33.931
she can't disappear.

339
00:15:34.075 --> 00:15:34.379
>> Tiffany Bartok: Wow.

340
00:15:34.419 --> 00:15:37.331
>> Speaker C: So Rita first has to disappear

341
00:15:37.395 --> 00:15:40.171
to. She got this bad suit, gray suit,

342
00:15:40.235 --> 00:15:43.214
matte suits. We had some bad, too,

343
00:15:43.164 --> 00:15:46.077
for our body to do. Not be as amazing as it

344
00:15:46.093 --> 00:15:46.334
is.

345
00:15:46.334 --> 00:15:48.291
>> Speaker C: She's still really. Oh, yeah.

346
00:15:48.315 --> 00:15:49.403
>> Tiffany Bartok: It's a tough sell, right?

347
00:15:49.451 --> 00:15:52.159
>> Speaker C: I would be. I would love this body, you know.

348
00:15:53.539 --> 00:15:56.392
>> Tiffany Bartok: And, when she was dancing, I was. I was

349
00:15:56.424 --> 00:15:59.392
like, I had no idea she could use her body

350
00:15:59.464 --> 00:16:02.356
this way. This is. I want to see this all the time.

351
00:16:02.736 --> 00:16:05.312
>> Speaker C: Amazing. She's a dancer first

352
00:16:05.384 --> 00:16:08.072
and fantastic. She's dedicated. That's why

353
00:16:08.104 --> 00:16:10.790
she's so good at, being actress, too. Is like,

354
00:16:10.878 --> 00:16:13.526
dancing is going through pain

355
00:16:13.606 --> 00:16:16.588
and discipline. and, a lot and a lot. And

356
00:16:16.612 --> 00:16:19.516
a lot of effort. And Zoe is, like, so

357
00:16:19.596 --> 00:16:22.256
good at it. She's so dedicated to

358
00:16:22.596 --> 00:16:25.244
her, ah, work. And it's coming from

359
00:16:25.300 --> 00:16:25.896
dance.

360
00:16:26.876 --> 00:16:29.172
>> Tiffany Bartok: I had no idea. I had no idea.

361
00:16:29.284 --> 00:16:32.148
>> Speaker C: Me neither. But I like the red suit. We

362
00:16:32.172 --> 00:16:34.972
could watch it, like, we shoot it, like, for two days.

363
00:16:35.044 --> 00:16:37.508
And we were each taking. We were

364
00:16:37.532 --> 00:16:40.188
like, oh, my God, it was

365
00:16:40.252 --> 00:16:40.932
gorgeous.

366
00:16:41.084 --> 00:16:43.540
>> Tiffany Bartok: I was wondering about Anthony Varcarello's

367
00:16:43.588 --> 00:16:46.498
involvement in the film. I saw that he was one of the

368
00:16:46.522 --> 00:16:49.252
producers, from St.

369
00:16:49.284 --> 00:16:52.268
Laurent. And that's. The suit was

370
00:16:52.292 --> 00:16:54.964
a Saint Laurent suit, I guess.

371
00:16:55.020 --> 00:16:55.300
Yes.

372
00:16:55.348 --> 00:16:57.136
>> Speaker C: Of course. Everyone gets,

373
00:16:58.811 --> 00:17:01.646
they came along after, like. Interesting.

374
00:17:01.946 --> 00:17:04.678
Yeah. Virginia, and Ariane, like, the

375
00:17:04.702 --> 00:17:07.504
costume designer, search for months.

376
00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:10.504
We all search for months. And it's really comfortable

377
00:17:10.560 --> 00:17:13.332
to have such a long time to search and

378
00:17:13.364 --> 00:17:15.932
search. As I said to you, circular question

379
00:17:16.004 --> 00:17:18.876
and everyone going on board to respond

380
00:17:18.916 --> 00:17:21.576
to it. And Saint Laurent

381
00:17:22.396 --> 00:17:25.113
came, along three weeks before we shoot.

382
00:17:25.297 --> 00:17:26.341
>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, wow.

383
00:17:27.721 --> 00:17:30.697
>> Speaker C: And so it was great to have them on

384
00:17:30.729 --> 00:17:33.452
board, of course, but, like, it, creates

385
00:17:33.580 --> 00:17:34.773
kind of a panic,

386
00:17:36.498 --> 00:17:39.290
because the costume was already done, you

387
00:17:39.314 --> 00:17:42.074
know, so. Oh, they work.

388
00:17:42.186 --> 00:17:44.826
They work together with Virginia and Ariane.

389
00:17:44.922 --> 00:17:47.610
And the scene was they create as a look

390
00:17:47.674 --> 00:17:50.226
stuff. And Saint Laurent recreated,

391
00:17:50.322 --> 00:17:53.210
like, with Saint Laurent touch. And

392
00:17:53.394 --> 00:17:55.798
they made this work three weeks before.

393
00:17:56.378 --> 00:17:58.718
When you are working for two years, you're like,

394
00:17:59.258 --> 00:17:59.858
no.

395
00:17:59.978 --> 00:18:02.866
>> Tiffany Bartok: Wow, how funny. I

396
00:18:02.882 --> 00:18:05.850
did not know that. That's funny.

397
00:18:06.034 --> 00:18:08.810
>> Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. But it's so great. Like, the

398
00:18:08.834 --> 00:18:11.740
red costume is such a. Such

399
00:18:11.764 --> 00:18:14.740
a trend just by itself. We all want to

400
00:18:14.804 --> 00:18:16.076
buy a red costume afterwards.

401
00:18:16.132 --> 00:18:18.956
>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, absolutely. I mean, absolutely. I can see it at the

402
00:18:18.972 --> 00:18:21.588
Oscars. That's what you should all wear and arrive on the stage.

403
00:18:21.668 --> 00:18:22.092
>> Speaker C: Exactly.

404
00:18:22.140 --> 00:18:24.164
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes, exactly. It's a no brainer.

405
00:18:24.316 --> 00:18:27.030
The movie had so many references that

406
00:18:27.134 --> 00:18:29.950
I picked up on and I wanted to ask you

407
00:18:30.134 --> 00:18:32.750
if I'm on the right track. Like I saw Tommy

408
00:18:32.934 --> 00:18:34.823
the Musical and Evita,

409
00:18:36.308 --> 00:18:38.962
when she is sort of like Che and

410
00:18:39.010 --> 00:18:41.993
Evita in that award scene when,

411
00:18:42.346 --> 00:18:44.826
Zoe's dancing. I wondered if there were any other

412
00:18:44.882 --> 00:18:47.478
references that you guys really were using.

413
00:18:50.338 --> 00:18:52.838
>> Speaker C: Like, I can totally see

414
00:18:53.298 --> 00:18:56.256
what you're saying, but as, French,

415
00:18:56.312 --> 00:18:57.708
we don't have a lot of

416
00:18:58.848 --> 00:19:01.304
musical reference. I've seen

417
00:19:01.336 --> 00:19:04.240
Evita Peron, but Tommy, I

418
00:19:04.264 --> 00:19:07.238
have no idea. Sorry. Oh, and I don't. I don't have this

419
00:19:07.278 --> 00:19:10.118
culture. I will, I will tonight. I will check

420
00:19:10.158 --> 00:19:13.143
on it, of course. But so it was

421
00:19:13.093 --> 00:19:15.985
such a, Trust, Trust, from

422
00:19:16.049 --> 00:19:18.873
our actress to come along with

423
00:19:18.913 --> 00:19:21.337
Jacques, who is French and who doesn't know about

424
00:19:21.385 --> 00:19:24.145
musical. First off, Jacques wanted to write an

425
00:19:24.169 --> 00:19:24.929
opera.

426
00:19:25.081 --> 00:19:25.993
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes. I was reading.

427
00:19:26.033 --> 00:19:28.809
>> Speaker C: Really inspired by the opera. That's

428
00:19:28.841 --> 00:19:31.481
gonna happen. Yeah, exactly. And then

429
00:19:31.537 --> 00:19:34.513
he. It was with Clement and Camille the

430
00:19:34.553 --> 00:19:37.257
Musical. And they did such a tremendous. They

431
00:19:37.265 --> 00:19:39.929
were working with him, writing and

432
00:19:39.961 --> 00:19:42.691
then, writing music along.

433
00:19:42.827 --> 00:19:43.235
>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

434
00:19:43.299 --> 00:19:45.779
>> Speaker C: It worked it that way. And Damien

435
00:19:45.811 --> 00:19:48.445
Jalet made a beautiful, choreography

436
00:19:48.509 --> 00:19:50.458
and. Oh yeah, for me it's

437
00:19:53.443 --> 00:19:54.747
a dark shadow, I guess.

438
00:19:54.875 --> 00:19:55.251
>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

439
00:19:55.307 --> 00:19:58.259
>> Speaker C: Like with crazy, dancing in our

440
00:19:58.331 --> 00:20:00.867
bedroom. I love this part. Made

441
00:20:00.915 --> 00:20:03.793
me. When I've seen it on Rush, you know, at

442
00:20:03.833 --> 00:20:04.201
night.

443
00:20:04.297 --> 00:20:04.633
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes.

444
00:20:04.673 --> 00:20:07.093
>> Speaker C: When I received it, I watched it and I was.

445
00:20:08.593 --> 00:20:11.593
For me it was so amazing. And. And Selena

446
00:20:11.633 --> 00:20:13.337
did such a good work too.

447
00:20:13.385 --> 00:20:16.225
>> Tiffany Bartok: Like I have to say, Selena

448
00:20:16.249 --> 00:20:18.945
Gomez. I mean I never. I always respected her as

449
00:20:18.969 --> 00:20:21.713
a, you know, but performer in general

450
00:20:21.793 --> 00:20:24.493
and an entrepreneur and she's an amazing.

451
00:20:24.873 --> 00:20:27.641
Is her at her best. I

452
00:20:27.657 --> 00:20:30.139
mean, Selena Gomez

453
00:20:30.291 --> 00:20:32.223
kills it. It's just.

454
00:20:32.603 --> 00:20:33.283
>> Speaker C: Yeah.

455
00:20:33.403 --> 00:20:36.227
>> Tiffany Bartok: And the number that goes with all of the.

456
00:20:36.315 --> 00:20:39.203
All of the people at the end of that one. Does

457
00:20:39.243 --> 00:20:41.211
the bedroom go into that again?

458
00:20:41.307 --> 00:20:44.019
>> Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. In the dark shadow

459
00:20:44.131 --> 00:20:46.979
and like to go hysterical with the movement

460
00:20:47.011 --> 00:20:49.659
of head. It was really difficult choreography to

461
00:20:49.691 --> 00:20:52.355
make. And she rocked it and she got a wig

462
00:20:52.419 --> 00:20:53.023
on.

463
00:20:55.423 --> 00:20:57.283
Emmanuel Jean was there

464
00:20:59.383 --> 00:21:02.199
and we, we had a lot of moments like that. Like

465
00:21:02.351 --> 00:21:04.889
you can't go for touching up like as soon as you're

466
00:21:04.937 --> 00:21:07.041
focused to the dance and stuff, you're not.

467
00:21:07.073 --> 00:21:09.937
>> Tiffany Bartok: Like, sorry, can I just get in

468
00:21:09.961 --> 00:21:10.525
there?

469
00:21:13.905 --> 00:21:16.545
>> Speaker C: No, you can't. You will be killed on

470
00:21:16.585 --> 00:21:19.497
the public places like with crocodile and

471
00:21:19.521 --> 00:21:20.320
stuff. Like,

472
00:21:23.595 --> 00:21:26.015
you couldn't. It's really such an impress,

473
00:21:26.080 --> 00:21:29.033
plateau yes. You

474
00:21:29.049 --> 00:21:30.401
know, you get shy.

475
00:21:30.553 --> 00:21:33.417
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes, yes, yes. Oh, I'm sure. I'm

476
00:21:33.441 --> 00:21:35.641
sure it was amazing. It had to be.

477
00:21:35.713 --> 00:21:38.553
What was the hardest film? What was the hardest number to

478
00:21:38.569 --> 00:21:41.065
shoot? The hospital must have been insanely

479
00:21:41.145 --> 00:21:43.681
challenging. And with the camera movements, the

480
00:21:43.793 --> 00:21:46.617
Selena Gomez, the shoot up at the end. Oh,

481
00:21:46.641 --> 00:21:47.485
my gosh.

482
00:21:48.385 --> 00:21:51.089
>> Speaker C: I just can respond as a makeup artist. Hospital

483
00:21:51.177 --> 00:21:54.005
was easy because it was really intimate.

484
00:21:54.210 --> 00:21:56.619
first we shoot. Jacques wanted to make. To

485
00:21:56.667 --> 00:21:59.347
remake the Gustave Courbet

486
00:21:59.411 --> 00:22:01.935
painting. Oh.

487
00:22:02.595 --> 00:22:05.291
So he wanted to be, like, an homage. But

488
00:22:05.363 --> 00:22:08.309
it's so, It's so there that we couldn't make it

489
00:22:08.357 --> 00:22:11.285
editing it. But I have to say, it was my

490
00:22:11.325 --> 00:22:14.077
favorite work because we trained Carla and

491
00:22:14.101 --> 00:22:17.031
I. She documented me with, what

492
00:22:17.063 --> 00:22:19.797
she's been through, with a physical transition. And we

493
00:22:19.821 --> 00:22:22.591
chose one of the phase where

494
00:22:22.733 --> 00:22:25.283
beautiful and photogenic,

495
00:22:25.339 --> 00:22:28.001
cinemagenic and stuff. And, John

496
00:22:28.033 --> 00:22:30.387
Crystal Spiracini, who made the, Manita

497
00:22:30.491 --> 00:22:32.731
prosthetic, made this beautiful prosthetic

498
00:22:32.803 --> 00:22:35.659
perfect from this photo,

499
00:22:35.827 --> 00:22:38.819
and I put, like, stuff, and we were

500
00:22:38.867 --> 00:22:41.683
really happy about it, but, like, it

501
00:22:41.699 --> 00:22:44.627
didn't. It didn't stay. And it's a good thing that it didn't stay,

502
00:22:44.691 --> 00:22:47.563
because there's so much bad curiosity of people

503
00:22:47.619 --> 00:22:50.607
with transgender operation and

504
00:22:50.631 --> 00:22:53.223
stuff that it wasn't good to.

505
00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.167
To. To. To put

506
00:22:56.191 --> 00:22:56.711
it on.

507
00:22:56.783 --> 00:22:57.863
>> Tiffany Bartok: I see. So what.

508
00:22:57.919 --> 00:22:59.955
>> Speaker C: So you wasn't made for it,

509
00:23:00.815 --> 00:23:03.515
but we can tell. It's so, like.

510
00:23:04.815 --> 00:23:07.807
It's. It's bad curiosity. I can tell

511
00:23:07.871 --> 00:23:10.475
from what people, like, ask me

512
00:23:10.815 --> 00:23:13.679
as makeup artists of question and stuff. I

513
00:23:13.687 --> 00:23:15.141
could tell. I was like, what.

514
00:23:15.303 --> 00:23:17.633
>> Tiffany Bartok: What. What's an example? What do you mean?

515
00:23:17.809 --> 00:23:20.242
>> Speaker C: Like, what does it look like? Oh, you know, like.

516
00:23:20.378 --> 00:23:23.346
>> Tiffany Bartok: Like, they're fascinated in the gore of it, in the.

517
00:23:23.530 --> 00:23:23.689
>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh.

518
00:23:23.689 --> 00:23:26.564
>> Speaker C: you know. You know, like, curiosity, and

519
00:23:27.464 --> 00:23:29.720
we don't do that to

520
00:23:29.792 --> 00:23:32.728
anybody. I don't ask

521
00:23:32.816 --> 00:23:35.432
people about their dick as they pushing, you know?

522
00:23:35.528 --> 00:23:38.336
>> Tiffany Bartok: You mean they were. They're too. They're intrusive

523
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:40.798
about the genitals. Yeah.

524
00:23:40.976 --> 00:23:42.066
>> Speaker C: Not in a good way.

525
00:23:42.170 --> 00:23:44.282
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Of course.

526
00:23:44.418 --> 00:23:47.210
>> Speaker C: And I know that transgender people get really hurt

527
00:23:47.242 --> 00:23:50.130
about this question all the time. Like, so, did you

528
00:23:50.162 --> 00:23:52.666
operate? Did you not operate and stuff? So,

529
00:23:52.810 --> 00:23:55.170
yes, it was a beautiful

530
00:23:55.362 --> 00:23:58.234
work, but I'm glad that we didn't put it in the

531
00:23:58.274 --> 00:23:58.666
film.

532
00:23:58.770 --> 00:24:01.706
>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, that's really fascinating. Yeah. Because then that

533
00:24:01.730 --> 00:24:04.290
would be all that anybody was talking about, right?

534
00:24:04.362 --> 00:24:06.454
>> Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

535
00:24:08.004 --> 00:24:10.780
Carla was up for it, and she was sure helpful

536
00:24:10.852 --> 00:24:13.756
with documentation. She made me grow so

537
00:24:13.780 --> 00:24:16.348
much as a person. M. But as a makeup

538
00:24:16.396 --> 00:24:17.824
artist, too. Yeah.

539
00:24:18.244 --> 00:24:21.244
>> Tiffany Bartok: Because you really must have talked about what's beauty and what's

540
00:24:21.284 --> 00:24:23.924
beautiful. And what did she want?

541
00:24:23.964 --> 00:24:26.556
>> Speaker C: The respect of. Yeah, exactly. The

542
00:24:26.700 --> 00:24:29.618
respect step of me. of course I read

543
00:24:29.666 --> 00:24:32.650
a lot, and I, listen to

544
00:24:32.682 --> 00:24:35.506
podcasts and stuff, but you're always,

545
00:24:35.610 --> 00:24:38.602
like, you have to ask every step of the way,

546
00:24:38.658 --> 00:24:41.178
is that okay? Is that okay? Is that okay?

547
00:24:41.346 --> 00:24:44.314
And, like, she was helping me so much to make it,

548
00:24:44.394 --> 00:24:47.274
like, easy, and she's not about it. Like, it's

549
00:24:47.314 --> 00:24:48.850
not constant conversation.

550
00:24:48.962 --> 00:24:49.614
>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

551
00:24:50.594 --> 00:24:53.570
>> Speaker C: We're friends. Like, it's not an identity

552
00:24:53.682 --> 00:24:54.450
as itself.

553
00:24:54.562 --> 00:24:54.834
>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

554
00:24:54.874 --> 00:24:57.698
>> Speaker C: Just like, for this part of the movie, she help us

555
00:24:57.746 --> 00:25:00.546
with me and John Christophe. Spell it to me.

556
00:25:00.690 --> 00:25:02.694
She offered a document,

557
00:25:04.674 --> 00:25:07.482
and she was happy with Manita's fast. We were

558
00:25:07.538 --> 00:25:08.346
scared of.

559
00:25:08.410 --> 00:25:09.522
>> Tiffany Bartok: I was wondering.

560
00:25:09.658 --> 00:25:12.538
>> Speaker C: Hurtful and. Yeah, traumatized. I didn't know

561
00:25:12.586 --> 00:25:15.388
what we are. well, we were looking for. I was

562
00:25:15.436 --> 00:25:18.308
ready to, you know, take care of her, like, like

563
00:25:18.356 --> 00:25:20.824
crazy for Manita's part. And

564
00:25:21.324 --> 00:25:24.196
no, she's fierce. Like, she was okay, and she

565
00:25:24.220 --> 00:25:27.166
was. She know this role. She

566
00:25:27.230 --> 00:25:29.844
asked, Jacques to play the both of them.

567
00:25:30.344 --> 00:25:33.336
He really asked, and she had to deliver, and

568
00:25:33.360 --> 00:25:36.288
she went all for it. So as soon as we create this

569
00:25:36.336 --> 00:25:39.168
Persona, she was moving, she was

570
00:25:39.296 --> 00:25:42.064
shouting, and she was embodying,

571
00:25:42.144 --> 00:25:45.088
like, this Persona in such an enthusiast manner. I

572
00:25:45.096 --> 00:25:45.776
was relieved.

573
00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.856
>> Tiffany Bartok: I was relieved, I mean, that. That my

574
00:25:48.880 --> 00:25:51.752
husband did not believe. He goes, oh, surely

575
00:25:51.808 --> 00:25:52.502
this is.

576
00:25:52.648 --> 00:25:55.258
The Manitas was a different actor. I said,

577
00:25:55.346 --> 00:25:57.794
no. And he was like, that's amazing.

578
00:25:57.874 --> 00:25:59.290
>> Speaker C: I'm so happy to hear that.

579
00:25:59.362 --> 00:26:00.014
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes.

580
00:26:00.354 --> 00:26:03.200
>> Speaker C: Obvious. But, it was a. It was a challenge. The first

581
00:26:03.232 --> 00:26:06.232
challenge that we had to provide. And at

582
00:26:06.248 --> 00:26:09.004
the end, I was like, I don't know. It's not about that.

583
00:26:09.464 --> 00:26:12.320
If they see it, that's okay. But I can

584
00:26:12.352 --> 00:26:14.696
tell now that people are. Is it the same person?

585
00:26:14.760 --> 00:26:17.648
>> Tiffany Bartok: I mean, yeah, it's phenomenal

586
00:26:17.696 --> 00:26:19.480
work. I mean, absolutely.

587
00:26:19.592 --> 00:26:22.256
>> Speaker C: It's a teamwork. I'm not by

588
00:26:22.280 --> 00:26:23.992
myself. It's a. It's a teamwork.

589
00:26:24.088 --> 00:26:26.684
>> Tiffany Bartok: Well, you can see. Yeah,

590
00:26:26.984 --> 00:26:29.568
you can see that everybody gave 100

591
00:26:29.696 --> 00:26:32.288
because it's strangely. Even though it's such a big,

592
00:26:32.336 --> 00:26:34.840
ambitious project, it's so intimate,

593
00:26:34.952 --> 00:26:37.884
and everyone is just, like, giving

594
00:26:38.384 --> 00:26:41.004
everything to these performances,

595
00:26:41.464 --> 00:26:44.216
but they're strangely not over the top.

596
00:26:44.320 --> 00:26:46.444
Like, they're really authentic.

597
00:26:47.064 --> 00:26:47.528
I just.

598
00:26:47.576 --> 00:26:50.240
>> Speaker C: That was the thing, like, to stylize.

599
00:26:50.432 --> 00:26:53.368
It's a comedy. It's a musical. It's not real. It's in

600
00:26:53.416 --> 00:26:56.136
studio. They were searching for two years

601
00:26:56.200 --> 00:26:57.968
to shoot in Mexico.

602
00:26:58.096 --> 00:26:58.472
>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

603
00:26:58.528 --> 00:27:01.520
>> Speaker C: And they couldn't find it. I don't know. It was complicated. So for

604
00:27:01.552 --> 00:27:04.240
two years they lost a lot of money about it and

605
00:27:04.352 --> 00:27:07.136
they decided to do in studio in France. So it's more

606
00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:10.122
France welcoming a, musical that

607
00:27:10.146 --> 00:27:13.060
we are not, you know, about it. And

608
00:27:13.100 --> 00:27:15.649
we are like with, international crew.

609
00:27:15.697 --> 00:27:18.521
And it was. It was scary.

610
00:27:18.593 --> 00:27:21.033
But the good thing with studio is like, you can

611
00:27:21.089 --> 00:27:22.697
stylize a lot.

612
00:27:22.881 --> 00:27:23.385
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes.

613
00:27:23.465 --> 00:27:26.097
>> Speaker C: You. You choose every. Everything

614
00:27:26.201 --> 00:27:29.169
will go in the image. And

615
00:27:29.217 --> 00:27:32.001
so at some point, if you put a

616
00:27:32.073 --> 00:27:34.961
good volume to everyone, it make it

617
00:27:34.993 --> 00:27:35.765
believable.

618
00:27:36.065 --> 00:27:37.337
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes. Yes.

619
00:27:37.401 --> 00:27:40.357
>> Speaker C: If you go to, 100, like. Like American

620
00:27:40.461 --> 00:27:42.825
people, American actor, play

621
00:27:43.205 --> 00:27:44.741
100. Like.

622
00:27:44.813 --> 00:27:45.253
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes.

623
00:27:45.349 --> 00:27:48.157
>> Speaker C: Voice. And you have this story with dancing

624
00:27:48.221 --> 00:27:50.765
and singing and stuff. They use

625
00:27:50.885 --> 00:27:53.733
every tool that they have. So French. We are

626
00:27:53.749 --> 00:27:56.429
not like that. We are really like

627
00:27:56.557 --> 00:27:59.180
low. And And so if we decide of this

628
00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:01.724
volume of dancing, for example, we need to

629
00:28:01.772 --> 00:28:04.772
decide should we go down with this volume to make

630
00:28:04.796 --> 00:28:07.360
this believable or should we go at this.

631
00:28:08.020 --> 00:28:09.730
It was a lot of, search.

632
00:28:10.030 --> 00:28:12.790
>> Tiffany Bartok: That's really interesting. That's really interesting.

633
00:28:12.870 --> 00:28:15.758
Because the performances were still intense. You know

634
00:28:15.774 --> 00:28:18.662
what I mean? But they weren't exactly what you're talking about. It wasn't me, me,

635
00:28:18.686 --> 00:28:21.366
me, me, me. You know, it's. It's serving the

636
00:28:21.398 --> 00:28:22.046
story.

637
00:28:22.238 --> 00:28:25.014
>> Speaker C: And every scene doesn't look like the scene

638
00:28:25.062 --> 00:28:27.290
after. But somehow, it makes it

639
00:28:27.330 --> 00:28:29.512
cohesive because of, Juliette.

640
00:28:29.536 --> 00:28:31.380
Well, thing or did the editing.

641
00:28:31.930 --> 00:28:34.786
Somehow it works. Doesn't

642
00:28:34.818 --> 00:28:37.594
look like any movie. Everything doesn't look.

643
00:28:37.642 --> 00:28:40.330
Even just the founding stuff.

644
00:28:40.450 --> 00:28:40.778
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

645
00:28:40.834 --> 00:28:43.802
>> Speaker C: There's a trip. You're like, what look like

646
00:28:43.826 --> 00:28:46.658
Stephen Soderbergh, 70s. I don't know. And

647
00:28:46.674 --> 00:28:49.466
you're like, oh, okay. On a blue

648
00:28:49.538 --> 00:28:50.042
screen.

649
00:28:50.146 --> 00:28:50.810
>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

650
00:28:50.970 --> 00:28:53.946
>> Speaker C: And they're like this. I love the

651
00:28:53.978 --> 00:28:56.385
scene when Selena is singing, with

652
00:28:56.425 --> 00:28:59.059
Edgar. Oh, yes, Me,

653
00:28:59.147 --> 00:29:01.937
Camino. And with all the effect

654
00:29:02.001 --> 00:29:04.705
and stuff. And it's not good quality of

655
00:29:04.745 --> 00:29:07.641
picture, but it show. It shows they are

656
00:29:07.673 --> 00:29:10.365
in a bar and stuff. So to

657
00:29:11.305 --> 00:29:13.873
trust the process of it. Like, I feel

658
00:29:14.009 --> 00:29:16.353
everyone. Good. Did a good job, I think.

659
00:29:16.489 --> 00:29:19.249
>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, I. I love this movie. I.

660
00:29:19.377 --> 00:29:22.073
I really want. I hope people will see it. And

661
00:29:22.129 --> 00:29:25.013
I. I was so mad at Netflix

662
00:29:25.069 --> 00:29:27.997
because it wasn't on the. You know, it didn't push it to

663
00:29:28.021 --> 00:29:30.885
me right away. So everybody who sees it, please

664
00:29:30.965 --> 00:29:33.821
go and like it so that it pushes, you know, gets on

665
00:29:33.853 --> 00:29:36.661
the placement for when you turn on Netflix. And I want the

666
00:29:36.693 --> 00:29:38.245
poster to just be right there.

667
00:29:38.405 --> 00:29:41.141
>> Speaker C: Yeah. But maybe it's about desire and

668
00:29:41.173 --> 00:29:43.705
searching. Maybe it's a good choice of Netflix.

669
00:29:44.605 --> 00:29:47.237
I don't know. I don't know. I think they do a

670
00:29:47.261 --> 00:29:50.085
tremendous job to. Even for me to

671
00:29:50.125 --> 00:29:52.965
talk about my work and stuff. It never happened

672
00:29:53.005 --> 00:29:55.681
to me, you know. And Netflix is, is

673
00:29:55.713 --> 00:29:58.231
pushing, our team to. And

674
00:29:58.303 --> 00:30:00.879
such, such a blessing for us. Like,

675
00:30:01.047 --> 00:30:03.759
I'm amazed of what I'm going through and my team.

676
00:30:03.807 --> 00:30:06.559
>> Tiffany Bartok: And we are so happy to hear that because you

677
00:30:06.607 --> 00:30:09.295
deserve it. It's the, the, the creative,

678
00:30:09.375 --> 00:30:12.135
the, the department heads for this and the

679
00:30:12.175 --> 00:30:14.999
creative approach for this is just. They

680
00:30:15.047 --> 00:30:17.555
don't make films like this. They just don't.

681
00:30:17.975 --> 00:30:18.955
Thank you.

682
00:30:19.255 --> 00:30:20.635
>> Speaker C: It's Jack and Vi.

683
00:30:21.605 --> 00:30:24.533
>> Tiffany Bartok: Fantastic. I want to see many, many more. And

684
00:30:24.629 --> 00:30:27.221
thank you so much. It was lovely to talk to you,

685
00:30:27.253 --> 00:30:27.901
Julia.

686
00:30:28.013 --> 00:30:30.653
>> Speaker C: It was lovely. I, liked it. Thank you.

687
00:30:30.749 --> 00:30:32.653
>> Tiffany Bartok: More soon. More soon. And good luck.

688
00:30:32.709 --> 00:30:33.505
>> Speaker C: Hope so.

689
00:30:33.805 --> 00:30:34.117
>> Tiffany Bartok: Bye.

690
00:30:34.141 --> 00:30:34.493
>> Speaker C: Bye.

691
00:30:34.589 --> 00:30:35.225
>> Tiffany Bartok: Bye.

692
00:30:35.725 --> 00:30:38.685
>> Tiffany Bartok: Look behind the look is a vinyl foot production written by

693
00:30:38.725 --> 00:30:41.349
me, your host, Tiffany Bartok. Produced by Jace

694
00:30:41.397 --> 00:30:44.373
Bartok. Edited by Mugresh Thakur. If you're interested

695
00:30:44.389 --> 00:30:46.991
in learning more, find our video version on the

696
00:30:47.023 --> 00:30:49.663
YouTube channel look behind the look podcast.

697
00:30:49.799 --> 00:30:52.607
There you can see rare photos and clips from our guests

698
00:30:52.711 --> 00:30:55.415
and please follow us on Twitter @lookbehindpod

699
00:30:55.495 --> 00:30:58.415
and Instagram @lookbehindthelook. If you like

700
00:30:58.455 --> 00:31:01.279
the show, please rate, review and subscribe

701
00:31:01.367 --> 00:31:02.207
and tell your friends.

702
00:31:02.271 --> 00:31:05.015
>> Tiffany Bartok: And spread the word. You can subscribe to us on itunes.

703
00:31:05.055 --> 00:31:08.007
>> Tiffany Bartok: Or any podcatcher of your choice. Thanks for listening

704
00:31:08.111 --> 00:31:10.015
to look behind the Look.