S4 | Ep. 11: Feud of Elegance - Jackie Risotto on Sculpting the Swans of Capote's World

Look behind the look explores your favorite looks in film, television and fashion history

>> Tiffany Bartok: Welcome to look behind the look, the celebrated podcast that explores your favorite looks in film, television, and fashion history through conversations with the fashion world's elite and award winning hair, makeup, and costume designers on sets around the world. You will see and hear exciting tales from behind the scenes career origin stories, and tons of advice and tips. I'm your host, Tiffany Bartok. Hey, everybody. Welcome to look behind the look. This week's episode, we're jumping out of movies for a second and going to tv. We're talking about the swans. Technically, it's called feud Capote versus the Swans. But you and I know we all call it whatever. We call it. Are you watching the swans? Are you watching swans? Are you watching Capote?

Today we're talking to Jackie Risotto about Naomi Watts' personal looks

The swans, whatever you call it, they're gorgeous. They're absolutely stunning. We've been talking about all of their looks for a while and seeing them infiltrate our feed and wash over us every day. These fabulous looks. So today we're talking to Jackie Rozotto, who is the makeup department head for this gorgeous work. She's going to tell me all the nitty gritty of how these looks were achieved. We're going to talk about Naomi Watts'personals work. that's the work of Kira Pachenko. Please go to her IG. I'm going to put it in the show notes to look at those beautiful transformations. Many people did not realize that Naomi Watts was, in fact, aged in this. so you can see the minutiae that went into that in her, Instagram feed. She really breaks it down. And Jackie talks about products that she used. We talk about that third episode, which was my absolute favorite, which was entirely black and white. I hope you learn a little, and I hope you continue to enjoy this series. It's not over yet, so continue watching, and we'll see you next time.

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The world, the center of everything.

Sex, money, and endless adventure. Hello, ladies. Mind if I sit down? Oh, I wish you could, but we're being joined in just a second. We see the importance of presentation underneath, though. It's an act. True men tell me everything. Here's the fact.

Even your sister will steal your man.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I don't know what matters more to him, the sex or you knowing about it. Wait, go back. We're talking the governor's wildebeest wife, that fat ankled Harrison.

>> Jackie Risotto: Okay.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Hi, Jackie.

>> Jackie Risotto: How are you?

>> Tiffany Bartok: I'm good.

>> Jackie Risotto: How are you?

>> Tiffany Bartok: I'm great, thank you so much for doing this with me today. I'm sure you are very in demand for interviews right now. The show is incredible, and it's been awesome. That's awesome. I just finished the third episode, so I'm caught up, but not ahead of anything. So the third episode?

>> Jackie Risotto: Yeah. Really? Okay.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I am obsessed with the third episode. It was by far my favorite. I thought it was so amazing. And I want to ask you some more filmmaking stuff about that. a little bit later.

>> Jackie Risotto: Yeah, it was really beautiful. I watched it last night also, and I was just blown away by.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Have you seen them all yet?

>> Jackie Risotto: No.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

>> Jackie Risotto: As they air.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I love that. Oh, my goodness. That must be a little bit scary. Is it? Yeah.

>> Jackie Risotto: I'm very protective of my work.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Sure.

>> Jackie Risotto: Want everything to look perfect. I am a perfectionist, so, yeah, it's a little nerve wracking, but, so far, so good.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah, so far, so good. Definitely.

The film looks stunning on the big screen, which surprised you

what surprised you the most in what you've seen?

>> Jackie Risotto: Well, I can't really say. It looks so beautiful. Like, the hair, makeup, wardrobe, the costume, flawless, decorate, like, everything. Production design, cinematography. so I can't say I'm surprised, per se, because when we were shooting it, I was like, gosh, this is going to be really incredible. You can felt it, but just seeing it all come together and it actually is just as beautiful overall as we all thought it would be. all come together on the big screen.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah. Very gratifying. I'm sure that.

>> Jackie Risotto: It worked out.

You're the makeup department head on "The Handmaid's Tale"

>> Tiffany Bartok: so the first question that I have for you, just so everyone can sort of understand it, is these ladies. You're the makeup department head. tell me a little bit about the staff here. We're talking about, because we have a lot of personals, and I wasn't sure when I looked at the credits, does each woman have a personal and how do you work with them? Tell me about all that.

>> Jackie Risotto: So only Naomi had a personal who's amazing. Yeah, amazing job with Naomi. She looks incredible. and then the rest of it was our department, so m my key, our third, and then we had a fourth most days because it was just a huge cast. and then we had our background supervisor and our additionals. It was a big project.

>> Tiffany Bartok: The background, of course, the party. Oh, my goodness.

>> Jackie Risotto: Didn't they look incredible?

>> Tiffany Bartok: Incredible. I absolutely loved it. I felt like that should have been the first episode, but, I mean, everything has the. I just loved it.

Maestro was shot in black and white; did that provide any challenges

So you knew that that would be black and white because you were replicating.

>> Jackie Risotto: We did know that it was going to be shot in black and white.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah. Did that provide any challenges for you or anything that you did different?

>> Jackie Risotto: it's interesting because I had done maestro, before this job.

>> Tiffany Bartok: you did? I just talked to kazoo. Last saw.

>> Jackie Risotto: I saw. Incredible, isn't? Yeah. So part of that was in black and white. So our makeup designer, Sean Greg, had us do a ton of tests with lipsticks and eyes and all sorts of things before we shot maestro, so I had those tips and tricks in the back of my head when going into that episode.

>> Tiffany Bartok: nice.

>> Jackie Risotto: I definitely took that into consideration in terms of, like, what shades we should use and, like, shapes for the eyes and, you know, different kinds of contouring instead of blush and things like that. Right. But I love a challenge, so I was up for it.

What are the shades of lipstick that really broadcast? Red. I mean, I can tell just even though it's black and white

>> Tiffany Bartok: What are the shades of lipstick that you use that really broadcast? Red. I mean, I can tell just even though it's black and white that it's supposed to be red. Right. What's the trick for that?

>> Jackie Risotto: We use a lot of the Pat McGrath, I love elfin, which is like a signature. I love elfin. It's sold out.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I mean, it's like the teeth whitener, everything.

>> Jackie Risotto: I know, but you'd be surprised. You really have to play around because there's just certain pigments that the camera catches or the light or something like that. you don't want to do anything too dark because then it's going to read more black, which could be a beautiful color in person, but in the black and white, it's either going to go too black, or if it's something too light, it's just going to go close to the skin tone. So it's fun to kind of play around with. We would put lipstick on and take pictures, turn it into black and white, see how it read like that kind of thing.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Amazing.

Each character is so different. I did a lot of research on each character

Did you feel like you had sufficient time to test everything, or was it a little bit nerve wracking or rushed or was it comfortable?

>> Jackie Risotto: I think I definitely had enough time. Life throws you curveballs, as does film and television production. and that goes with every job. But I've been doing this a while, so I was, like, hitting them out of the park. but, yeah, there's always going to be curveballs, but I felt know I prioritized what I needed to prioritize in terms of our shoot schedule, just so we never were. Kind of just like, didn't know what to of.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Each character is so different. What are some key elements to each character that you like Callista had to have this, or. I love Callista's. My favorite look. I just, like, die when I got. Why hasn't she ever been to Audrey Hepburn? Has she been? And. I don't know.

>> Jackie Risotto: I don't know. She's got such a cool look to her, and she's just as cool in person. I mean, they all are. All the women are just amazing, and it was so much fun and surrounded by greatness. But, we did a lot of research. I did a lot of research on each character, on each person. It's so weird to call them a character because they are characters, but they're also based on real women. so I did a ton of research on each individual. So, like, slim Keith, for example, usually had more of a lip and, like, a lighter eye. cz guest kind of did more of, like, a corally type.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I noticed that. Really different colors. Yeah, for totally, totally.

>> Jackie Risotto: And then, like, for Kira with Naomi, babe paley always know, heavier eyes, heavier lashes. more eyeliner. And then, yeah, for Lee, who is know, we definitely played up the eyes more and did know natural, subtle lifts. So we kind of tried to marry the two. Right. The actor, like, their look in real life, what works for them, and also who this woman was, what she wore, what she liked, what worked for her. and then find that middle ground.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right. There was something different about Callista's face shape too, I feel like. But maybe that's just because I haven't seen her for a while or something, but it's great. What a comeback.

>> Jackie Risotto: I know. Was it Allie McPeeble? I feel like it was.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I'm not sure I really.

>> Jackie Risotto: Saw.

Molly Ringwald plays Joanne Carson on the show

>> Tiffany Bartok: they're all, now, let's tell me a little bit about Molly Ringwald's character, because I'm not familiar with who she's playing. And so, I wasn't like, this is the quirky. I feel like. I'm like, oh, no, I'm Molly Ringwald. I'm that swan.

>> Jackie Risotto: She's playing Joanne Carson. Right.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

>> Jackie Risotto: Wives of Johnny Carson.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay. I was like, wait a minute. Why, do I not know Johnny Carson's wife? Okay.

>> Jackie Risotto: Yeah. So, well, I think there were a few, but one of them, so she's kind of this more free spirit la kind of cooler. Not cooler.

>> Tiffany Bartok: It's like more laid back.

>> Jackie Risotto: More laid back versus these more New York kind of vibe.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

>> Jackie Risotto: So that was fun to play with, too, because then we could mess around with her makeup a little bit more. We gave her earth tones and stuff. yeah, it was cool. It was fun to experiment with each character and give them each their own look.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah. And was that Phyllis Diller at Thanksgiving? That we were looking was like, that cannot be anybody else but Phyllis Diller. Wow.

>> Jackie Risotto: There's so many cool, like, nods to different. Last night in the black and white episode, there was, like, a Candice Bergen character.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay, subtle.

>> Jackie Risotto: Like Truman goes, okay, sorry. Buy candy. You know, there's just, like, these for people to kind of pick up along the way.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Little Easter eggs.

>> Jackie Risotto: I don't remember. No worries. There's so much going on in my brain. I'm, at capacity, I'm sure, because.

>> Tiffany Bartok: When did this wrap for you?

>> Jackie Risotto: We wrapped march of 2023.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay, so this has been a year, and then how many projects have you been on since?

>> Jackie Risotto: not too many. Because of the strike, of course. Yeah. I did a movie right after feud wrapped, and we wrapped that movie in May, and then I'm prepping now. I'm on a job now with Michelle Williams that we will start filming March 1.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, amazing. Oh, that's soon. Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk to m me in the middle of all this craziness.

>> Jackie Risotto: It's been a wild ride these last couple of weeks, but I'm so grateful.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Sure. Everybody's just dying over all this stuff.

What are some of the products that you just can't live without on set

What are some of the products that you just can't live without on this set that you couldn't live without?

>> Jackie Risotto: The moment I got this job, I was thinking, that's, where my mind, I'm like, what am I going to do here? And I gravitated, of course, towards Pat McGrath because her line is just so perfect for what we needed. Between the shadows, the liners, the lipsticks, just the colors, the pigmentations were really going to read so nice on camera. That's really where I gravitated towards. But we like to mix things up and certain things work, and some things we'll try different brands, like Dior and Shantekai. So we pull from all different sorts of companies, and brands nice.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Whatever's the best from each and whatever does the. About.

Let's talk about Tom's transformation in Spider-Man: Homecoming

let's talk about Tom's transformation. Tom Holland. Not Holland.

>> Jackie Risotto: Tom Hollander.

>> Tiffany Bartok: That's some of the funniest stuff online, is the mix up of the two. I love those memes.

>> Jackie Risotto: I texted him when I saw that Seth Meyers interview, and I was like, you are just.

>> Jackie Risotto: Okay, So, yes, Tom, he was a lot of fun. He was a lot of fun as a human, and he was a lot of fun to do makeup on. to create this character, it was really important that we got it right in terms of hair and makeup. And me and, you know, the hair department head, we worked very closely together, with Tom to make sure that we just were on the same page. And within a few days, we were in such a rhythm. It just happened super fast and naturally. Thank goodness, because it was a big job.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, my God. I mean, if it's wrong, it's over. Like, from the first scene, the pressure must have been insane. And then I was thinking about you last night, because I watched the second one last night, and I think he's dumping, alcohol down the toilet. And I'm like, why are they shooting him from this angle? This poor team must have been like, because you have to think of every angle is convincing. So did an amazing job.

>> Jackie Risotto: Thank you.

There are no prosthetics on "The Handmaid's Tale"

>> Tiffany Bartok: What are some of the key elements that you had to keep in mind? The jowls or what were.

>> Jackie Risotto: Yes. So Tom did put on weight for the role.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay. that helped, probably.

>> Jackie Risotto: It did help. but when we shot stuff in the, we didn't want him because that was kind of started his spiral, if you want to call it. So I would take lifts and tighten so that it's subtle, but it works. And it kind of just helped with his character development throughout the season and throughout the decade. yes. And I would tighten up under his eyes because we didn't want him to look like he was having any bags or anything. So since we didn't use prosthetics, I just kind of really leaned into a lot of different tips and tricks. that ended up working out really nicely.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I'm surprised that there's no prosthetics. That's so amazing. Wow, that's really cool.

>> Jackie Risotto: Yeah.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Wow, that's so cool.

>> Jackie Risotto: No prosthetics.

>> Tiffany Bartok: And I love how the women are. I can tell how old they are. Really? I mean, except for Demi Moore. That's a mystery. What is going on there? She is 35. Yeah.

>> Jackie Risotto: You look better than me.

>> Tiffany Bartok: You're going to be a baby in ten years. but I love that the faces are so natural and just completely believable, and it's perfect. It's so refreshing to see that, for sure.

>> Jackie Risotto: And I think that was really important to Ryan and everybody involved. project, we wanted to just show these women how they are, you know what I mean? And they're, ah, all so bloody talented and beautiful, and it made our job.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Sure, sure. And m I'm sure. So collaborative.

>> Jackie Risotto: It was so collaborative. Yeah.

Tell me about the Jessica lang of this film

>> Tiffany Bartok: Tell me about the Jessica lang of it all. I mean, did she come for how many days? Did she, know?

>> Jackie Risotto: I think maybe five in total.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, okay. So we'll get a lot more of her then, I'm sure. Okay.

>> Jackie Risotto: Yeah, maybe it was probably around then.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

>> Jackie Risotto: Yeah. But I mean, her scenes. Whoa.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah. And this creation of her character must have been, I mean, it must have been just a work of art. How did you even manufacture? Was there any reference to his mother?

>> Jackie Risotto: We got, like, two very small black and white. yeah, there wasn't too much sure.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Reference, but it's so believable that she looked exactly like that.

>> Jackie Risotto: and a lot of that was Jessica as well, being collaborative and how she wanted the hair and the makeup and everything. I mean, she's just incredible. I got chills. She's just amazing. Everybody, I have to be honest with you. Every single person that came into our trailer was so invested in this. I knew me and my team were, you know what I mean? We were totally, like, this is like a dream come true. And then every actor that came in was so invested, so involved, and it was just so collaborative overall. And I think that that's also what you're seeing on screen, is everybody's dedication to this project and, just wanting to make it as amazing as it could be. And I think that really shows.

>> Tiffany Bartok: So committed. Amazing. Yeah.

How does Gus Van Zant work with Ryan Murphy on this project

I'm curious filmmaking wise, about, like, can you tell me, because he's one of my favorite directors, how Gus Van Zant works with Ryan Murphy? Was Ryan Murphy on set? Is this how involved is Ryan? What's the dynamic?

>> Jackie Risotto: You know, I can't really think too much to their dynamic, because I was so much in my own world, running around in every which way. Gus is amazing, obviously. Ryan is amazing as well. Clearly, they work very well together. Yeah. And, yeah, Ryan was like, I mean, he is super involved. I think he know, he's just so passionate, and he knows what he wants, and he knows, just the collaboration between them as well, to trust us with this. Or Jason, our DP. Everybody just is trusting and talented, and I had never worked on Orion job before. and it was really amazing. Like, the meetings we have, he was so elaborate in what he envisioned, and that was really cool to see. And you're just kind of sitting there like, wow, it gets. You inspired.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Everybody so involved.

>> Jackie Risotto: It just kept the inspiration going. And I'm talking about from prep till, like, rap, not once did anybody lose their inspiration. And I think that is a lot safer. Like, the people at the top, right?

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes. Because usually it's just like, direct, like, you do this, do that. This is mine. But it's sort of like passing on the vision so that you can all celebrate it.

>> Jackie Risotto: Our producers, everyone was. It was such a great environment, and it's almost like being almost, a year out from it now. I miss it. You forget what you felt like in those moments. but yeah, everyone was amazing.

>> Tiffany Bartok: So when you are locking a look, do you present it in a meeting? Do you present it in pictures? How does one get a look signed off on?

>> Jackie Risotto: Right. camera tests. Really? I would say that those were super important on this. And we'll also say that it was really cool that they really trusted us. if anybody had notes, we got them and we changed things. But I can't. I see typically remember a time, but that varies job by job. Some people are more involved, but we really got a lot of creative freedom. And, we worked with our actors to make sure that they were happy and that they were getting what they, Really. It was. Yeah. How.

This is the first time you've worked on a Ryan Murphy production

>> Tiffany Bartok: Now, you said this is the first time you worked on a Ryan Murphy production. So what was the path that led you to this job?

>> Jackie Risotto: so a producer I had worked with in the past, kip Myers, who I love and adore, I had worked with him on Fosse verdon.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh.

>> Jackie Risotto: When this came up, my name somehow got thrown into the mix. and I was available, thank God. And, yeah, I interviewed and the rest is history.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Well, now, posse Verdon. That's Ryan.

>> Jackie Risotto: Yeah, no, it wasn't actually.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, my gosh. I did not even know that. I didn't put that together. I guess that was a while ago. So I'm going to give myself permission for a second.

>> Jackie Risotto: I was like, wait, was he involved?

>> Tiffany Bartok: Wait a minute. Who am I? What's my name? I love, bossy Verdon. I just thought that was impeccable. Amazing work. Yes.

>> Jackie Risotto: Thank you. I still get like, I can't believe I did that.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah, you did.

>> Jackie Risotto: Yeah.

What was it like on set, the show within the show

>> Tiffany Bartok: And then I wanted to ask you about again, about episode three. What was it like on set, the show within the show? How did that work? was everybody just on set at all times? And it was crazy.

>> Jackie Risotto: It was crazy.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

>> Jackie Risotto: But it was a great kind of crazy because everyone will. I thrive in kind of like, chaos. but it was crazy. I mean, we had hundreds of background actors. I had, I think, 30 makeup, artists just in background alone. And I have to say I am so impressed and thankful we had the best artists in our business on that job and for those scenes, and I'm just so grateful they all came with their a game. I mean, I'm getting chills thinking about it. They were all so lovely. It just was so amazing to see so many artists so passionate and just excited to do these looks. yeah, but, yeah, it was chaos.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Well, that's a tribute to you, too. I mean, you say that they want to do a good job for Ryan and Gus, but they want to do a good job for you, too. So you sound like a very amazing, positive leader, which is very kind of rare. People are usually just tired.

>> Jackie Risotto: I'm nothing without my team. I guess I could be something, but I had the best. My. All the girls in the trailer and then my background supervisors and the additionals, everyone just really came together, and I'm just so amazing.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Amazing. Well, Jackie, thank you so much for talking to me about all of this. do you have another story I love to hear? I always ask this, but was there a day that tried to kill you?

>> Jackie Risotto: By the end of the job, I was so tired that I was, like, taking Ubers. I live in Westchester. I was, like, taking Ubers to and from work because.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, my God. Yes. Where did it shoot?

>> Jackie Risotto: well, you know, it was cool. I have to say, our locations were incredible. We were out on Long Island, a. all. I think we were a lot on Long island. the city. we were in Westchester a few times.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, nice. Okay, so that's a good.

>> Jackie Risotto: Yeah, that was convenient. but, yeah, the locations were incredible. You'll see, you know, throughout. I keep pointing to my tv.

>> Tiffany Bartok: You can't see too. It's over there.

>> Jackie Risotto: But, you'll see, like, the rest of the season. Just the locations are incredible. I mean, totally gorgeous. but, yeah, every day was something different. Ah, I would say the days that we had all the women, like those coat basque days.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

>> Jackie Risotto: I mean, wow, you just kind of stand around and you're like, I can't believe I'm surrounded by all of these amazing people right now. Gus is over there and, ah, there was like, know. It was like a pinch me course.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Of course. That's amazing.

>> Jackie Risotto: Yeah, it was really.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Well. Well, thank you so much for talking to me, Jackie. And I know how busy you are. I will talk to you on the next one, because I know you're probably working on something amazing right now while you're.

>> Jackie Risotto: And if you can see my little Lulu girl right in the back.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, my gosh, Lulu. I see you cock your head. Hi. You know we're talking about.

>> Jackie Risotto: Least she settled at the end. Yes, I love it. I love it. But yes, definitely looking forward to chatting with you again in the future.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Sounds good. And we'll continue watching the swans Truman Capote feud. Truman Capote versus the.

>> Jackie Risotto: I know, I know. So good, though.

>> Tiffany Bartok: All right, bye for now.

>> Jackie Risotto: Take care. Bye.

Look behind the look is a vinyl foote production written by Tiffany Bartok

>> Tiffany Bartok: Look behind the look is a vinyl foot production written by me, your host, Tiffany Bartok. Produced by Jace Bartok, edited by Nicole Tucker. If you're interested in learning more, find our video version on the YouTube channel look behind the look podcast. There you can see rare photos and clips from our guests. And please follow us on Twitter at look behind pod and Instagram at ah. Look behind the look. If you like the show, please rate, review and subscribe and tell your friends and spread the word. You can subscribe to us on iTunes or any podcatcher of your choice. Thanks for listening. To look behind the look close.