Secrets From The Penguin Hair Department Head Brian Badie & Rebel Cristin Milioti

Tiffany Bartok moved the entire podcast over to Substack

>> Tiffany Bartok: Welcome to look behind the look, the celebrated podcast that explores your favorite looks in film, television and fashion history. Through conversations with the fashion world's elite and award winning hair, makeup and costume designers. On sets around the world, you will see and hear exciting tales from behind the scenes, career origin stories and tons of advice and tips. I'm your host, Tiffany Bartok.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Hi everybody. Thanks for tuning in to look behind the Look. If you're watching amazing, can you go ahead and subscribe for me? I would love you forever. That would be amazing. I have a certain goal of, a certain number that I'm looking to close out 2024 with and it would be tremendously helpful, to the podcast if you would just press that button. That's all you have to do. And just to let you know, I'm on Substack as everybody else is, and I'd love to connect with you over there. Substack's been pretty awesome. I love it. Actually. I moved the entire podcast over to Substack. and the community there is pretty cool because it's all kind of new and so nobody's really figured it out yet, which I kind of love. so there's not a lot of people there, not too many. So it's not overwhelming yet. So head on over to Substack to check everything out, if you have a minute. And I write some things there that are not on the podcast, obviously. and have the videos, the bite sized videos over there, which are really fun and deeper looks into the films that I love and I know you love, like the Bodyguard and Footloose. And, I think this week we are talking about Xanadu. We've been talking about Xanadu for a while, but we have many installments about Xanadu because there was just so much to say.

Brian Badi is the hair department head for the Penguin currently

this week I am talking to Brian Badi. He's an incredible artist. He's the hair department head for the Penguin currently, which is amazing. I had no idea. I did not expect that. I am not like a comic book person. M. So I didn't know what to expect. It's incredible. Colin Farrell is one of my very favorite actors in the whole universe and he's mind blowing in this. I can't recognize him at all, which is very upsetting. he has completely disappeared. So Brian and I go into how that all happened. sad to see his beautiful face go, but the performance is worth it.

>> Speaker C: Brian.

>> Tiffany Bartok: and I also talk about his days all the way back, starting with, Law and Order, SVU Yeah. So he has some funny things to share about that, about his career. And a lot of dirt, actually, which was a lot of fun to dig into. So please enjoy this conversation with Brian and I. We had a really great time, and you're going to love what he has to say and a lot of advice that he has to give.

>> Speaker D: Come on, you gotta help me out.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Come on. Life is just a dream.

>> Speaker C: You promised me. I was all.

>> Speaker D: I know now.

>> Speaker C: I deserve a better life.

>> Speaker D: I'm working on it. The world ain't set up for the honest man to succeed. That should be the American dream right there.

>> Speaker C: You know?

>> Speaker D: Beautiful story with a happy ending, but that ain't the way the world works. America's a hustle. Not that I'm complaining. Penguin, you waltzing in here like you mean something. We're in the middle of a gang war. Car owns dead. If we don't protect watar, we just look weak. The streets are talking again. They know there's only one man big enough to run this city. Ah, if you remember Carmine's daughter.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, I didn't mean to interrupt.

>> Speaker D: Sophia. I, thought you was still at, Arkham.

>> Tiffany Bartok: No, I've been rehabilitated. You're playing a dangerous game with his family arms.

>> Speaker C: You think I want Sophia Falcone knocking on my door? She is the hangman. What is it you're really after? Us.

>> Speaker D: Gonna tear down the empire from the inside out. Whoever controls the drug business controls the streets. I'll be running the whole damn trade.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I got ambition. I can help you. Hey.

>> Speaker D: Feel alive, Vic, Huh? Feel her heart beaten.

>> Tiffany Bartok: This city is meant to be yours, sweetheart.

>> Speaker C: What are you gonna do to get it?

>> Speaker D: Trust me. It's just the beginning.

Brian Badi is a hair designer from Louisiana

>> Tiffany Bartok: Hi, I'm here with Brian Badi. We are already talking. So I was like, I have to just stop and hit record because you were telling me all about your origins already and how. How, you're from Louisiana. And I was like, wait a minute, I gotta hit record. So, Brian, tell me. Tell me a little bit more about what you were just saying. you are a hair designer, and you're from Louisiana. And I asked you how, how often you get to go back to Louis, Louisiana, to work, Because I know there's a lot of production there. So, But you were saying that that's where you began. And now tell me, tell me more.

>> Speaker C: So, yeah, I began in work. I'm from New Orleans, so I got my first job around. I'm telling my age.

>> Tiffany Bartok: That's all right.

>> Speaker C: 1995 okay. And it kind of started there. It wasn't something that I thought about pursuing because in the 90s it wasn't on. It wasn't as known that, hey, you can do hair for films. It was all fashion or music at the time. Yeah. So this kind of like crept in on the side for me and I was like, okay, it's cute. I like it because to me it's. It's different personality types in each world like music, fashion and film. So I.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Very different.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, very so. And I seem to fit in well. So my career started there. One film a year maybe. And then I decided to move to New York because I had learned, that this local, this local crew title, I was like, what is. Oh, we viewed differently kind of thing. So I was like, okay, the local hire. And I was like, I don't want to be just a local hire, so what do I have to do? And I guess it's as simple as change your zodiac. Like, not Zodiac, your zip code. Right.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Zodiac.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I love. I see where your mind is. I see where you're living.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. So I ended. I moved to New York in 1998. I started on film in 95 and 98. no, sorry, 2001, 98 is when I started working the programs to get here, making contacts, when I was able to work with people from New York and made some friends and people were like, you can live with me to get your feet off the ground and things like that. And 2001, I made the big switch to New York City.

Local hire versus bringing somebody is becoming more and more of a thing

>> Tiffany Bartok: So tell me more about local hire versus, bringing somebody. Like this is becoming more and more of a thing. Like you're referring to how, like when production says we're just going to have to get a local hire. Right. Is that what you're saying? So it's a sort of a stigma, kind of. Or.

>> Speaker C: I felt, so I felt that it was a bit of a separation.

>> Speaker C: I, was accepted always, I guess because of just who I was. So I was. And that's why I was privy to hearing it more. Yeah, I could. I was amongst the conversations as it was happening, like I wasn't a local hire.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

>> Speaker C: And I was like, oh, so there is a separation. There's a difference. So it's almost like I took it personally, like the local hire wasn't as.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Revered, which is not true at all. It's.

>> Speaker C: It's just how you think.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

>> Speaker C: It's how people think. Especially when you're dealing with the big engines of, New York City and a Los Angeles attitude, like, we're the big city people. And at the time I had never worked in these arenas, so I was kind of believing it myself.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah. Right.

>> Speaker C: Until I moved to New York and realized that, hey, New York is full of people from other places. So if not necessarily the genius children in New York weren't exactly born and raised in New York. So I learned that that was a stigma that wasn't really all the way valid.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Very interesting, very interesting.

So 2001, you got to New York and then were you already union

So 2001, you got to New York and then were you already union or were you trying.

>> Speaker C: Okay, I became union in 1998. Got it. One of my besties, Anthony Hemingway, he's a producer, director, currently with that Ryan Murphy, gig right now. he got my resume on the desk of a show in Baltimore and that was my first time traveling. And that job grandfathered me into the union instantly because it was a four month gig. So it was enough days for me to get my.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Nice, nice, nice. What show was that?

>> Speaker C: That was the Corner, which was from the family of Homicide and which was the Wire and all that. Yeah, it was the Corner.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah. Yeah. And now you said he is working on the, Menendez project?

>> Speaker C: No, no, he's doing the one with Kim Kardashian and Glenn Close. He's the AP as well as director on that. And we're best friends, we instant besties students.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, that's great. That's great. A nice helping hand. A very, very large helping hand.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. Well, I, contribute my being able to live in New York to him and helping me out, so. Because he let me live with him rent free, which was very important because. Because it was a struggle.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

>> Speaker C: So I do, I'm forever indebted to him. He's an amazing person.

>> Tiffany Bartok: What a blessing.

In New Orleans, it was very difficult to develop a clientele

So what did you do while you were between shows? What to sort of get by. Did you, were you into fashion or did you do non union jobs as well or what clients?

>> Speaker C: I only did salon. I would, I would go to a job, a film job. And then when I wrapped, I go back to the salon. My clients were very understanding and patient and that got me through in New Orleans. In New York, I did it as well. But it was a little more difficult in New York City because I, it was very hard for me to develop a clientele here.

>> Tiffany Bartok: So do you know why?

>> Speaker C: I just think it's New York City, it's just one of those places. And you know, clients here wasn't exactly weekly people. Like, they would get like color. Yeah. Or, ah, cuts color and disappear for two months. New Orleans client would come just to get a shampoo and pay full price. Yeah. So it got me by, you know, but it was definitely a struggle until I landed the gig that made me feel, okay, I can freelance for real, which was Law and Order svu.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

>> Speaker C: Once I got that gig, which was five years later, I was like, okay. And I still tried to juggle the salon on weekends. And then one day I had to make the switch and take that big leap of faith and be like, okay, I'm officially a freelance hairstylist from this point. Let's see how it goes.

Tell me about the Law and Order SVU day you did Mariska's hair

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, wow. Law and Order sbu. Saving the day now.

>> Speaker C: Save the day now.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Tell me about that. Were you, were you on the team or what is the day? Tell me about the Law and Order SVU day.

>> Speaker C: I started as the key, which is the second. In charge. And, I turned out to be a bit of a hit there. So, like, Mariska, like, the way I did, I had to do her hair, like, by accident because the key, the department head, hurt her back.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Which. Wait, which, which hair, hairstyle are we in for? Mariska at this point.

>> Speaker C: Okay. This is the one immediately after her Emmy win. So it was the bob. Okay.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

>> Speaker C: So, when I met Mariska, she came through from the Emmys the, like the week after she won her Emmy and she had a bop.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

>> Speaker C: So I wasn't supposed to do her hair, and I had to do it because the department had hurt her back. And so that kind of was not the best thing for her.

>> Tiffany Bartok: She's fine now. She's fine. She's fine. She's fine.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. So then it was like one after the next. Like, the actor started sort of requesting me to do the hair, and, I finished. That was also the year of the writer strike, you know, 2006 or seven, I think it was.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes.

>> Speaker C: And, they started requesting. And then we had a strike and we came back to work and it was a little messy. I mean, you know, I don't want to get into it too much, but she tried to. She sort of fired me. And Mariska got wind of it and made a call, and I became a personal cut to the next season. I was department head. And that's how it began.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I'm dying right now.

>> Speaker C: I mean, if you want some salaciousness.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Always, always. I mean, listen, that's how it happens.

>> Speaker C: It.

>> Tiffany Bartok: How it's. It's divine intervention, you know, it does happen that way.

>> Speaker C: And it Was. It was not intentional. And it was. And it was a weird position for me to be because on one end, like, I have actors like, we like you. And then on the other end, it's becoming uncomfortable for, the department head. And I just wanted to work. I was desperate. I've been struggling for five years in New York. Like, this was a blessing for me. So I was. I had a little bit of a victimized feeling because I was just caught in the middle of all this. And I didn't ask to be in this position, but I, again, I had to, like, take it in stride, and I had to do what's best for, overall.

>> Tiffany Bartok: That's so interesting. And you know what? That's something we actually should have a conversation in the industry about, is that, like, you know, it happens. It happens. I mean, I. Sometimes, talent, asks for someone, and you cannot force this relationship. You just cannot. And so, really just coming to terms with, like, letting something go, it's so difficult. It's so difficult. But if you just peacefully can let something go, you'll be rewarded with another gig. You know what I mean?

>> Speaker C: Right, right, Exactly.

>> Tiffany Bartok: But trying to force that square into a circle and making everybody around you, you know, so upset. It's. I've seen it a million times, and it just, ripples into, you know, a whole vibe that.

>> Speaker C: Right. And you. You have to not take ownership on it. You have to make sure. You have to believe that you. It's not your fault. It is business at the end of the day. And, you know, some things, it's just meant to be. Like, that could have been the process that was coming my way, and it just happened to be a little.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes, right, right, right, right, right. Exactly. Oh, my gosh. Well, what that. That show, is, I mean, for everybody. I'm not special, but, like, I have it on while I do all my work throughout the day. And I don't know why it relaxes me. I need to ask my therapist, but, like, yeah, yeah, I've seen every single episode, and every time, it seems like a new one. So, yeah, I, love.

You played Mariska on Law and Auto for seven seasons

I'm watching your work the whole time. I love it.

>> Speaker C: For seven seasons.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

>> Speaker C: I went from the bob to the feather. Mariska, like, a lot of the fans was like, your hair is the best, Mariska hair. I mean, I love her hair now, though, so I don't know currently. Yeah, it's just the right amount of wavy. It's more, like, tousled. It's cute. And I haven't spoken with her in a minute, but I always keep my eye on her hair just to make sure.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Of course. I love it. I love it.

>> Speaker C: I'm Mariska.

>> Tiffany Bartok: And then did you do Kelly, too? Kelly Giddish.

>> Speaker C: I established Kelly, but my key at the time was Tasha Marshall, so she would do Kelly, but I did Ice, Chris Belzer, Diane Neal, and Mariska the all. And, you remember Michaela was there for a minute. I was doing Michaela. And then guest stars, too, like Lena Olin.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Long day. Long day.

>> Speaker C: Oh, my God. Yeah. But you know what? Lauder gave me the most iconic guest stars. Like, I got to work with Carol Burnett. Like, I would have never in a million years thought I would. And she thought I was amazing. And I was like, oh, my God, that is like the seal of approval in my world over any other person. And Sybil shepherd was another one.

>> Tiffany Bartok: That was a big.

>> Speaker C: A big deal for me. Law and Auto as a guest star. Like, Sybil was like, you're amazing. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm amazing. You know? Yes.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, I love this. I love this.

>> Speaker C: So it was a great run.

You left a high-paying job to become a freelance designer

>> Tiffany Bartok: What took you out of it? Like, why did you. Was it another job that took you out?

>> Speaker C: Well, let's go about the reality. Like, when I started in this business, I had a goal in mind. And, I, The goal was not to just be on one show for the rest of my career. And it was the moment where I just had to say, it's time to go. So I was open to another opportunity. And the show I got was Power for Starz Network. They were starting up, and remember, m. Law and Order was already going, so I still never designed a, series or a major show. So I was following suit what was already happening. So Power was my first time designing a major series. You know, even though it was cable, it wasn't prime time, but, well, everybody was watching it.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Everybody was watching it.

>> Speaker C: Oh, it's a big deal. And so it set another tone for my future.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Sure.

>> Speaker C: Ah. I. I just realized that some people like to get a series and just feel comfortable. Like, I have a normal 9 to 5 job.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes.

>> Speaker C: I really wanted to live the freelance life. I wanted to travel. I wanted to work in different countries, different cities. I just wanted to have new experiences all the time. It can seem a little daunting. Like, my mother says she would never be comfortable not knowing where her next check is coming from.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah, I know, right?

>> Speaker C: It works. It fits for me. I never even think about it like that. I'm like, it'll come. And it does. Somehow it works out. And here it is, 2024. And if anything, my career has done nothing but incline, you know, so it was a great decision. It's not an easy one. And apparently, because people have told me, like, oh, my God, you're really brave to, like, leave a steady job and just go and wing it and see what happens. Yeah, yeah. So it was as simple as that for me. And. And I don't regret it. I don't. Yeah.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Ah, no, I know what you're talking about, because there's always the makeup artist that's on the set that's been there for 20 years, and they're like. They're always buying a house upstate, Right.

>> Speaker C: Always by the house or in Jersey, and they always have a pool, and it's fabulous.

>> Tiffany Bartok: And they're always showing you how.

>> Speaker C: Yes.

>> Tiffany Bartok: And they're always closing. It's closing. And you're like, okay. And you're like, wait, oh, no, I need more. I need more. I love it.

Who was the creator for Power? Well, it was Courtney Kemp

So. So, Power. Who was the creator for Power?

>> Speaker C: Well, it was Courtney. It was Courtney Kemp as a showrunner, but 50 Cent also.

>> Tiffany Bartok: That's right, that's right, that's right.

>> Speaker C: Thank you, Randall, Emmett and Mark, Canton.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Got it, got it, got it.

>> Speaker C: So, I mean, all of them had a hand in it, but for me, it was all about Courtney, because as the showrunner, she was the creative, so she was the one I went to for, approval. She was the person that, in my mind, I had to make happy.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Fantastic.

>> Speaker C: Okay.

>> Tiffany Bartok: And then. So she seemed very happy. So.

People judge you on your looks, and you have to learn everything

So you had a good time on Power, and where did that shoot again? Was it Chicago?

>> Speaker C: No, New York. New York.

>> Tiffany Bartok: New York. Okay, okay.

>> Speaker C: Steiner Studios.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Got it, got it, got it.

>> Speaker C: It was great. And for me, that was a little more glamour than, Like, because people look at Law and Order as cop hair, even though, like, come on, Mariska's hair was far from cop hair. But I was judged on that because I had an opportunity for a show. And I won't say who, but she was like, oh, that's just cop hair. So I wasn't good enough for that show for the number one, because she looked at it as. I don't really know his work because all he's really done is cop hair.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Speaker C: So I listen to these things, and I'm like, okay, so what we need is diversity. We need all the things on the resume. We need all the things so that.

>> Tiffany Bartok: When someone looks at you. Yeah.

>> Speaker C: You have to. And I've been saying that to. Even when I mentor a younger artist, when people say, what do I need? I was like, learn everything. Like you don't want any job to go away because you don't know one particular thing. So that's why it was really important. I'm a barber as well. So I, I'm experienced in many periods dating back to now, 1500s, as well as barbering and things like that. So you. Any person, any actor, any character, walk through the door. I can handle it.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I love that.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. Because it will. People will judge you on it. They like, oh, he doesn't do enough glamour. Oh, he doesn't do enough period crackheads. He doesn't. He's never done a crackhead.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Crackheads.

>> Speaker C: You never know, it might be a movie where the number one on the call sheet is a crackhead. And you have to really make a gorgeous Hollywood actress.

Mike Marino designed Penguin from the Batman film

>> Tiffany Bartok: Speaking of which, I see now your mentality and how it led you to the Penguin, because why did this have to be done to my favorite, most beautiful actor in Hollywood? Oh my God. I'm like telling my husband, who also feels the same way about him, I can't see Colin. I cannot see him. Where is Colin?

>> Speaker C: And it's amazing. M.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh my God. I. The work is incredible.

>> Speaker C: I mean, incredible.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I just, I was, I mean the close ups, like it's not even afraid to go close up. He can still express himself. He's still able to act through all that. I mean.

>> Speaker C: Yeah.

>> Tiffany Bartok: saying stuff with his eyes. Okay.

>> Speaker C: No, it's trippy. It's really trippy. Even in real life.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Really.

>> Speaker C: No, I'm telling you. You know, Mike Marino designed him from the Batman film. He's special effects, designer for the show.

>> Tiffany Bartok: So he.

>> Speaker C: I see.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay. Got it, got it, got it. Okay.

>> Speaker C: But he, and he established it from the film and I was, when I saw the film, I was floored that that was Colin Farrell. So now I get to see it in real life. I was part like at the beginning I just assisted with the, the application of the, the wig piece because in the film Colin would shave his head and had like a little halo haircut.

>> Tiffany Bartok: And he doesn't now.

>> Speaker C: Well, for the, for the series, he didn't want that, I guess because it was like an eight month gig. So he didn't want to walk around New York without hair. So Mike and his team devised a situation where they did like a half ball cap and they need the hairstylist assistance just to like slick Colin's hair down. Really tight. And then they do their magic and apply the piece. And then the initial at the beginning of the season, then I like cut it and blended it in with the sides and things like that. And maybe color match and things like that. As far as the hair part of it. But I mean, but Mike is the genius behind the overall.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Wow.

>> Speaker C: but it was to the point where I would see Colin as Colin, talk to him, have a good time. He would be Penguin. I would forget is Penguin. And when I was talking with Colin. Well, when I was talking with Oz, it was in my mind I was talking with Oz. So we had this banter that we would do because he would call me by my alter ego name, which is, Bambi. Like Bambi Lamour, back when I was a dancer.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Love, love.

>> Speaker C: So when he found out my name, he was like, bambi, why am I not calling you Bambi? So as Oz, he would be like, hey, Bambi. And he would be in character and I would forget it's Colin, because literally talking to this man, there's nothing about him that looked like Colin Farrell. It is genius. Mike is a genius.

>> Tiffany Bartok: The behavior, everything. I can't see him and I'm just like, oh, my God. Please, God. Where is Collins? Oscar, Emmy, whatever. Where is it? Yeah, give it to the man. I don't understand. This man is God's gift.

Sophia gets a haircut on the show that's very unique

tell me also about Sophia. Who? Her haircut, did you cut that haircut?

>> Speaker C: Yeah, I did. I was 100% Sophia, like. But it was a little bit of a trick we had to do. I don't even know if I'm supposed to tell all these behind the scenes secrets. So what we had, established in Sophia was a lot of layers, a lot of people involved. You have D.C. over here, you have Max over here, you have the showrunner, the director and Kristen, right? Me and Kristen were on the absolute same page.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Kristen, the actress and, the actors.

>> Speaker C: Who play Sophia, she understands fashion, she understands character development. This is a dream actor for me to work with, especially the fashion part. Because a lot of times you work with actors, they're not really plugged into the current trends all the time. They bring a lot of their personal wishes to characters. And I'm like, but you're not yourself. So I always try to. My job is to be like, this is a character thing, like, less so that's why I love character development with wigs and things like that. So I could have 100% autonomy on this. Right?

>> Tiffany Bartok: I call it security blankets. Security blankets. When they're like, I love this coat. I've always wanted.

>> Speaker C: Oh, I, know I use Linus blanket all the time as a reference. I'm like, get over that blanket. And you're making my job harder. And it's a little bit of a, It's a miss sometimes, because it's an opportunity for us to create something great that's new for the world to see. And you just can't pull away from your personal thing long enough to just, like. Because this is not like, a normal show where you're playing yourself or something like that. This is a whole world where we're, like, creating. So basically, long and short is Kristen and I vibed on everything. She wanted a little messy. She wanted it to. Because the story of Sophia, like, she's coming from this world of Arkham. She was in this thing, asylum. She's not all together there, and she's not going to the salon. So in essence, she's cutting her hair. We just don't see it on camera. But when she's younger, her hair is long. When she's daddy's little girl, but in Arkham, she's still longer. When she gets out, she's putting this demure act on to be like, nobody's assuming that I'm about to, like, annihilate y'all. So then, as you see in the show, when she goes into this wolf cut, that's what. That's the beginning of her revealing herself. Like, okay, I'm tired of these pins. I want to cut my hair and be more edgy. So develop just designing that look. It was me and Kristen coming up with an idea. We wanted to use a wig. Max didn't like wigs because people, a lot of times in the business are just really anti wigs because they had a horrible moment. Yeah, well, no, they're more afraid because a lot of people, when you put wigs on, they just look like wigs. And I'm saying that's not my story.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

>> Speaker C: You know, so we had to. We had to prove it. And we had wigs, and we used them for tests, and it was going back and forth, back and forth. So Kristen was like, I think we should just cut my hair and just still get over it. And I was like, I can't do that because I can lose my job. I was like, but if you did it on your own, then I could just be like, oops, she cut her hair and stuff like that. And she did.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, my gosh.

>> Speaker C: She went to her stylist, her personal stylist. And was like, cut my hair like this. The hostileist did the initial cut, and then I finished it up and then was in. She is actually. She's. There's two things. There's two looks. She's actually wearing a wig. The final mullet look is all wig. And. And when she came back. When we came back from the stripe, Kristen had grown her hair out. So everything after the strike, I had to take a wig and recreate it.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, my gosh.

>> Speaker C: To look like the first look.

>> Tiffany Bartok: God.

>> Speaker C: Which. Which gagged everybody because it was. It proved my point. Like, I can make a wig. They didn't know. You can't tell what's the wig and what's not.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right, Right.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. And that wasn't even. That wasn't even custom wigs. That was John Blake wigs, which is a Hollywood, wig maker. They're basically stock wigs. You know, it wasn't even custom. Yeah.

That's how her look started, she says

But I was like, y'all, I've deal with wigs. I've been dealing with wigs since the 90s. I know all the drinks.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right, right, right, right, right.

>> Speaker C: So that's how she. That's how her look started.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, I love it. I love it.

This one is very different from other comic book shows you've done

And how did the job come to you?

>> Speaker C: Dana Robin and Bill Carrera were, producers on this. They also were producers on, Lovecraft Country.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Okay.

>> Speaker C: And I. I did Lovecraft.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

>> Speaker C: And m. That's where our friendship relationship developed. And so when they got the job, they called me, and I'm forever grateful because this was, one of the large feathers in my. My hat. I, love. Incredible. M. This gig, it was so fun to work on.

>> Tiffany Bartok: I mean, I'm not a. I'm not a, I'm not a comic book person or. I mean, I'll watch the Marvels because I have a son. But, like, I just. Like some, of them are outstanding, but this one's very different than first than I was expecting. And first, like a second, like anything else, really. What's making. What makes it so different?

>> Speaker C: Well, and I feel like what makes a difference. What makes it different is what I love about it because it speaks to me as an artist. I think what makes it different is Dylan Clark and Matt Reeves. Like, they have from the movie itself. Like, their formula is edgy. It's. It's. I call it adult. You know, it's. It's really underground. And it may. In. In doing this, it may not be for everybody, but it ended up being really popular. And I think people, the Audience is starving for this type of thing. Instead of, instead of like a little more clean version and the cookie cutter version, like, like for children and things like that. This one might be more of a type of show where adults who don't ever want to watch a comic book show will actually watch this one and enjoy it. So I think just visually that's what it is. It's edgy, it's darker and it's just. It's almost like, it comes across even in the Batman film. It came like a horror type film with that, like that level of darkness and the characters all have an edge, like this parallel universe. So that's what really attracted me to it. When the job came across my desk, I was like, this is the job for me. As opposed to maybe some jobs, I wouldn't mind doing it. But as an artist, I love edgy. I love like things that are like, not perfect and deconstructed looks as far as things like that. Yeah, glamour is fabulous, but I think sometimes it's harder to make something fashion and deconstructed and have real storytelling involved. Other than all her hair is beautiful.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right, Right. No, the story is so clear, what you were telling me about Sophia's hair. So like I can see it all illustrated in the work that you've done.

>> Speaker C: Yeah, it's amazing. M. Thank you. I'm glad you see it because it's meant to be a little manic. It's meant to be a little like mysterious. Like the wolf cut, the shag, it's the bang. It's like she's hiding. She's always plotting. Her eyes are always working.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, those huge eyes. Yeah.

>> Speaker C: And then the mullet is like the big reveal. It's like full crazy. But then upping the fashion and that the layers sort of come alive like fire and tentacles. So I displayed the layers a little more. So they have more of a personality.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh my gosh. Incredible. Incredible.

You worked on Queen and Slim with Lena Waithe and M. Molina

And you worked on Queen and Slim too? Yes, yes.

>> Speaker C: Ah.

>> Tiffany Bartok: How was that experience?

>> Speaker C: Wonderful. Another one like, whereas, creative. Working with some really creative people like Lena, Waithe and Molina is like, I mean, I just love when I get the opportunity to not only work with filmmakers, but like real artist types that I look at. Like, wow, this person has real vision. And Queen of Slim, although what appears like a simple movie, is so layered and looks and storytelling through all genres, all parts of it, whether it was the costume department, the, cinematography, like set and everything, production design. So that was a really fun one to work on too. Like, you know, when you do something, you're really proud of it afterward kind of thing.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes, yes, absolutely.

>> Speaker C: Even Jody's braids, to me, were not just braids. It was like, here's a girl who has, like, a ethnicity or Afro kind of feeling to it, but she's a lawyer, so she's trying to be this proper kind of crossover type chick. So how do I tell both stories but using braids? So we didn't. We did twists, and we did them. So they're really flexible to give, like, a Naomi Campbell kind of look. So imagine them not being braids, but it's just, like, a long weave. But we actually use braids, but with the effect and the choreography that is long, straight hair. Like, she's the little girl living out her fantasy, trying to pose in front these, like, lawyers and things like that.

>> Tiffany Bartok: The detail. I love the choreography. Yes.

>> Speaker C: You'll get it. Because if it was just braids, it might be a little too, like, Afrocentric or whatever. And she's trying to pose and blend in in her corporate world, which is what was making her go against Daniel's character, because she just thought he was too down. She was. She was the snob kind of.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Right.

>> Speaker C: So it's like, so how do you do that with hair? And that's what we came up with. But that was a me and M. Molina collabo, because Molina is really creative.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Really?

>> Speaker C: Yeah.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Oh, yeah. Now. Now, when you're talking about the tug of war between the network and the showrunner and the actress, what. What.

>> Tiffany Bartok: What do you choose?

>> Tiffany Bartok: What path do you. How do you sort of isolate and figure out what you're going to do in the end?

>> Speaker C: It's tricky, because you have to stay professional, too. And these, you know, people are signing your checks. I just. I do it just by being really honest.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah.

>> Speaker C: I. I'm unapologetic, though. I say things that maybe some people might feel uncomfortable saying. I. My goal is to please. If it's a series, my goal is to please the showrunner and the actor. Those are the top two. I feel like the studio sometimes should just, like, let us have more of a say.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Of course, of course.

>> Speaker C: And trust in, us that I've been doing hair longer than you've been working for a studio. you know, like, I've been doing hair for a long time, and I know character development. And if you trust me, I will give you. It's not about my ego. I will give you the best product of the best look for your Investment. So, sometimes I feel like they miss that part, and they might feel like we just want to do great hair. And I'm, a hairstylist. It's all about me. Which does exist.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah, that's true. That's true. Right?

>> Speaker C: It is true. But it's not my story.

Who do I report to on Penguin? There's a lot of people involved

And so, like, Penguin, for example, because there's a lot of people involved, I literally have to ask, who do I report to? Really? Like, because at the very beginning, I was, like, torn between, like, well, who do I give? Who do I ask approval for? Because do I have to write an email with 10 people attached? Like, I was trying. I was trying to, like, eliminate some of that.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yeah, of course.

>> Speaker C: Secretly, just because I was like, well, I want to go to the person first who's going to get it, who has some say so, and let them talk to everybody else. I didn't want to come out the gate with it. And so for this one, it was Craig. It was Lauren, with Craig directed, and Lauren was showrunner, so. And. But Dylan. Dylan Clark from the world. the Matt Reeves world. I. Dylan was on set every day, and I definitely went with him for, pretty much everything as well.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Wow.

>> Speaker C: You know, so. And Max was jumping in a lot, to the point where even Max, I think it was Sarah, she called my cell phone, which I'd never had in my career, the opportunity to speak to the head of the network. and we had to have a conversation because it was a lot of back and forth. And I was like, look, I'm trying to give you the best thing. Like, I know how to do waivers. She. We got to a point, and we were fine. So it was a respect thing, too, because a lot of times you don't get to talk to studio heads and people in Los Angeles. So I felt honored that she took the time out her day to actually call me just to, like, let's get to a point. Let's get to a place.

What was the concern? Because you were dealing with wigs on the show

>> Tiffany Bartok: What was the concern? Because you were dealing with wigs, and the budget was getting out of control.

>> Speaker C: No, the budget never was the issue. She just did not like wigs from the world.

>> Tiffany Bartok: This is so funny to me.

>> Speaker C: She did not want to. Did not want a wig. And I was like, it's Penguin. You have number one on the call. She walk around with a full wig, fat suit, prosthetics. Like. Like, this is Hollywood. This is what films are made of. Like, how. What do you mean you don't want wigs? Like, you tie my hands behind my back, you know, so she Took it. Took convincing. It did. And I guess I bet if you talk to her now after the show is out, she will say Brian knew what he was doing. Because, you couldn't tell me what was the wig on this show at all?

>> Tiffany Bartok: No, no.

>> Speaker C: 100%. Even Carmen with this blonde hair, that was a store bought wig. We could not get a custom blonde. And when I saw that close up, on the big screen at the premiere, I was like, word. I had to pat myself on the back because I was like, oh, my God. Because that was the wig I was really worried about because you can't hide nothing because her hair is black. So I couldn't even cheat with her hair. Clinton. And the lace on those lace on store bought wigs is very thick. It's not HD quality. It's very hard to blend. So.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Wow.

>> Speaker C: Wow. All the spirit.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Halloween lace.

>> Speaker C: Wow. Very, very Ricky's.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Very Ricky's. Oh, Rip Rickies. I, know I miss you.

>> Speaker C: It was Shangri La for me. I loved Ricky so much. Yeah.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Shangri La. Oh, well, Brian, I. I love talking to you. I can't wait till the Penguin gets renewed and we can talk again about all the looks. I know it's a big, I don't know, huge hit. Huge hit.

>> Speaker C: I.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Everybody I talked to is watching to it.

>> Speaker C: Yeah. I mean, people I'm seeing it is blown up. I knew, I felt it was going to be a big deal, but I didn't anticipate it to be this level.

>> Tiffany Bartok: me either. It kind of like snuck in there. And then I was. I saw the artwork and I was like, is it a movie? Is it a show? But now I'm seeing the press come out about, you know, how good it is and must m Appointment, the new appointment TV they're calling it, so.

>> Speaker C: Right. Well, I'm putting it out there because this is supposed to segue into the next Batman movie. So hopefully they'll invite me to work on the movie because that would be a dream come true.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Well, it sounds like if Sophia is a part of it, like you're not leaving her side.

>> Speaker C: Well, look, I'm gonna be like, Kristen, don't forget me. You know, let's see.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Yes, exactly.

>> Speaker C: Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Everything crossed, always. Oh, Brian, I'm gonna let you go for today. But I loved. I'm gonna have you back when we talk about something new, because I know you're gonna be up to 100 more things.

>> Speaker C: Oh, thank you. It was fun talking with you. I mean, I had a great time. And again, I'M honored to have been a part of it. I'm, really, really flattered. Thank you.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Thank you, Brian.

Look behind the look is a vinyl put production written by Tiffany Bartok

>> Tiffany Bartok: Look behind the look is a vinyl put production written by me, your host, Tiffany Bartok. Produced by Jace Bartok Edited by Mugresh Thakur. If you're interested in learning more, find our video version on the YouTube channel look behind the look podcast. There you can see rare photos and clips from our guests and please follow us on Twitter @lookbehindpod and Instagram @lookbehindthelook. If you like the show, please rate.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Review and subscribe and tell your friends and spread the word. You can subscribe to us on itunes or any podcatcher of your choice.

>> Tiffany Bartok: Thanks for listening to look behind the Look.